Where do I say that?

If we did bid for some hookers we failed every time until we had to settle for Falloon.

But you said we only got Falloon cos we acted too late. Are you now saying we maybe didnt act too late and that we made bids for targets but couldnt get the deals done for whatever reason??

Wonder if these targets were McDermotts targets that you said GH had refused him earlier in the thread???? Or did McD give GH a list of targets that GH refused and bid for his own targets????

Or maybe just maybe GH and McD believed Falloon was in budget, was worth a 1 year punt in the hope it came off because he had enough NRL experience to fill the spot.

Or maybe we signed Falloon on a 1 year deal because we were desperate and neither party was interested in a longer deal and hopeful we could sign better the following year.

Everyone knows we messed up with the hooker and it was an emergency panic signing because neither us or Falloon had any other option. That's all on GH for allowing that to be the case.

But the point is nobody knows whether they thought he was good enough or whether it was a panic buy. Truthfully it could be either one. So on that basis to claim McD has had targets declined by GH without any proof of it seems a bit over the top. And nobody knows if we made moves for other hookers but couldnt get deals done. In truth your making points about GH with nothing to back it up.

Printer is actually correct in one sense. McDermott wanted Houghton and Westerman but Hetherington wouldn't pay out for either, so he does have some say in the players that come to the club.

Not unreasonable prospective signings if true. Perhaps McDermott should have then considered his position if he didn't feel he had the support of his CEO to strengthen the squad.

An ultimatum from a position of strength (Leeds' only treble winning coach) may have got the purse strings shifting.

Whatever may have been happening behind the scenes the result is there for all to see.

Maybe he did



At the time Aiton's departure was confirmed he hadn't won a treble. Could've ended the season trophyless or a repeat of how 2014 went after the CC.

Point taken re 'the only Leeds treble winning coach' at the point of recruitment - although I obviously knew it was going to happen and chose to keep a low profile. If McDermott wasn't happy with his prospective 2016 squad at any point post Easter 2015 he needed to fight harder for what he wanted and expect the CEO to back his judgement. If his requirements were reasonable (Houghton) but were still knocked back he could and should have called the CEO's bluff and walked if necessary. I haven't included Westerman here as Ferres is equally as good if not better albeit fortunate that he became available.

It's not often I criticise Hetherington, and I understand the point and value of the wage structure and not "overpaying" for players, but we needed one of Houghton or Clark. Westerman I'd have liked too but, especially with Ferres becoming available, not so important as a decent hooker. Aiton proved how valuable a proper hooker is. Although ironically if we'd still got Aiton he'd have been out injured anyway.

Erm......but the above players werent available. If they had of being they would have been top of McD's list and as we now know (without any proof) GH is going out of his way to block any players McD wants......

All i know is McD and Hetherington looked to be getting on well together at Cas on Sat watching the 19s. Sat on the terracing behind the posts with Hetherington's mummy. This imaginary rift looks like a bit of jackanory but would love to see the evidence.

But again the above is just rumour and speculation, apology if you find it offensive but the amount of garbage spouted about Breirley I can't take the above names seriously.

I tend to agree with printers viewpoint regarding Faloon but the point being made was non of us actually know if that's the case.

Well said Ferdy.

Who said anything about blocking players McDermott wants or a rift, you're exaggerating what's been said. Simply pointed out that GH didn't make sure our previous starting hooker stayed or make sure we got a good strong replacement.

You said McDermott wanted an experienced 6 and 9 - so how has that suddenly become just a 9 - perhaps because you have been taken to task - so you are starting to wriggle - now there is a surprise

I don't take it as a gimme that if a player gets injured playing for one club that it would've happened if he was at another club.

Would Shenton pick up a season ending injury on the opening week if he wasn't playing vs HKR and been on the end of that particular tackle?

If Ablett was playing for another club and not playing on Widnes' plastic pitch 2nd week would he have still hurt his ankle?

Not sure what Aiton's latest injury is but the pectoral injury he picked up about 15 mins into the season opener isn't a gimme that he'd have been injured 15 mins into our season opener. Maybe he'd have picked up something else at a different time though I accept.

Sorry I didn't realise I couldn't talk about the hooker position in isolation.

Do you think Falloon was McDermott first choice or that Hetherington didn't mess up not making sure he signed a better 9?

Are you going to debate like a grown up the point at hand or have you just come along to yet again jump on somebody else's debate with me because your obsession with me is becoming really tedious and pathetic and you're making yourself look obsessed and childish.

Printer i think we are all in agreement that Falloon isnt the number 9 to go into next year with but the reality is both McD and GH will have agreed the deal and both will have done their homework on him. Just because the signing hasnt worked out, like many dont at all clubs, doesnt mean that it was a panic buy.

You claim it wasnt McD's choice but it was kind of forced on him by GH because he did nothing about signing a 9 until only Falloon was available but there is no evidence of this. How do we know GH didnt want him and McD didnt push for it with GH accepting it on a 1 yr deal only??The truth is none of us have a scooby so no point making things up about it.

I believe both hoped Falloon would work out given his NRL experience but as we all agree it hasnt. Isnt the 1st and wont be the last.

Falloon was one of the group of Titans more interested in partying than playing and Leeds signed him soon after he was effectively released. I wouldn't have gone near him except in desperation because of his attitude and the fact he was nondescript in one of the weakest NRL sides. I expect GH would probably admit the same given the timing of his signing and the fact he was only given one year.

Agreed. Thank goodness they didn't give him a 4 year like Achurch.

I can see why they went for Achurch. He was young, wouldn't count on the Overseas Quota, big, quick and got an offload.
Unfortunately he hasn't improved over the 4 years and hasn't developed any aggression either.

Yes, but if it's true he is one of the top earners it was a gamble that has bombed badly TBH.

TBF to Achurch, he has shown glimpses of his latent abilities while here, few and far between as they may be. He just seems to have fallen into that trap of not being played / injuries and overall just not trusted, very similar to Hauraki etc before him.

None of us know the management or boardroom discussions that go on in private. But I would say that most onlookers would agree that Caddick holds the purse strings and that GH is a frugal manager and it is my understanding that he plays the lead role in recruitment with the final say. BM (& other coaches before) will have taken the job knowing this. So to suggest the if Mac did not get his way on recruitment he should have resigned is easy for others to say when it is not their livelihood at stake.

As events have proven our recruitment policy to cover the loss of Sinfield & JP was seriously flawed and if I am right with regard to the above then this would explain why GH can hardly sack Mac when the responsibility is with himself.

There are too many coincidences to be ignored for our dramatic fall from grace. First major factor IMO is the the loss of our 2 best and most important players which have left the side leaderless on and off field and which appears to have caused a catastrophic loss of confidence and it has also shown some of the squad to have been well overrated. The second major factor is the still ongoing season long serious injury crisis which cannot be brushed aside so easily. The destruction of the training facilities was also a factor but one that should have been overcome some time ago. The coach and his methods are the same as when we won so many trophies so why would he suddenly lose the dressing room and from what I hear they are all working hard in training.

The one unexplained fact is the woeful performances from the likes of senior players Hardaker and Watkins which has gone on too long just to be poor form. I still have a nagging feeling that some players may have other issues and usually serious ones concern money. Could it be the bonus for winning the treble was disappointing or could our close season attempt to sign Sam Burgess have involved and upset certain players going the other way or could it have blown apart the players faith in the current pay policy?

I claim no inside knowledge and I do not know any of the players Dad's, just musings to try to explain some of the possible factors.

Definitely agree there. Though I always take rumours of players wages with a huge pinch of salt.

I think you are being too kind on him here. He's played far more than I would have had him playing.