|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 6003 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2017 | 8 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Seth"No it's not seen the uplift in performances a) because it left chev walker in charge for 3 of them who by his own admission didn't change anything and b) Brad Arthur has been here 5 minutes! It seems that the way smith had us playing has affected their conditioning to as they can't go more than 25 minutes at the level required and looked spent. He should persist though with demanding they play that way because it's what champion teams are built on, smith though he could be a smart booty and bypass this. As buderus said to the players the other week 'the game will always be win and lost on the gain line'. The aim should be to get in the 6 as they need that motivation but reality is if we fall short I want to see the team able to show some sustained dominance on that gain line and see what the attack looks like off the back of that. If I remember correctly our first set of the game no backs carried the ball, our forwards have been treated like a protected species with the backs flogged, this needs to change'"
Correct
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 4719 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2018 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Seth"No it's not seen the uplift in performances a) because it left chev walker in charge for 3 of them who by his own admission didn't change anything and b) Brad Arthur has been here 5 minutes! It seems that the way smith had us playing has affected their conditioning to as they can't go more than 25 minutes at the level required and looked spent. He should persist though with demanding they play that way because it's what champion teams are built on, smith though he could be a smart booty and bypass this. As buderus said to the players the other week 'the game will always be win and lost on the gain line'. The aim should be to get in the 6 as they need that motivation but reality is if we fall short I want to see the team able to show some sustained dominance on that gain line and see what the attack looks like off the back of that. If I remember correctly our first set of the game no backs carried the ball, our forwards have been treated like a protected species with the backs flogged, this needs to change'"
Or it's possible you are wrong and had RS remained in charge it would have given is the best chance of the 6 this year, given how far in we are. Then again, I don't believe Harry Potter could conjure a SL title from our team right now so it's a moot point really.
I also clocked (and liked) our forwards taking the yardage carries a little more against KR, and the backs that joined in seemed to do it at more effective times. Which is partly why we were looking better because we were threatening their 50/40m line at the end of sets more. Frawley is way more accurate at that range than from our own half.
Overall I'm confident BA is a more effective coach than RS, but either way our squad needs surgery again it seems.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 6738 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2004 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| You're right Jim the evidence base for that outcome has been really strong over the last 18 months...
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 432 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2019 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| In terms of the squad, I would say that saints were night and day difference under Cunningham to Holbrook with mostly the same squad. I think the coaching appointment is more key than bringing in a wave on new signings, although a couple of props would be ace!
Whilst the salary cap makes it difficult to bring in whoever we want, it also means the gap between top and bottom probably isn't as vast as we'd all think on the face of it.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
First Team Player | 1104 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2020 | 4 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="KaeruJim"Think you're both right: sacking Smith has NOT seen us improve performances or results on the whole, 4 games in. In fact I would wager we might have done better in these games had he remained in charge.
Also Blease had no choice but to sack him because he'd lost the crowd so badly.
It will of course take time for any changes to be seen: there were some green shoots against KR but the bottom line is that this side isn't good enough, we are going to finish exactly where we deserve. Many have been saying "we're a better side than our performances/position" - well what evidence do you have for that?
I still think another three high quality signings in the right positions, plus a full pre-season for the likes of Newman, Holroyd, Simpson, Lumb, Gannon etc. to step up a gear hopefully... we should look better. The side needs to play differently, and again we need a full pre-season to put that into practice. We aren't a million miles away in all fairness but we also need to be realistic about some tough choices which need to be made if we're going to compete.'"
It is to be hoped Arthur has gone before pre-season - half this squad wouldn't survive a pre-season under Arthur - simply not fit enough.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 6003 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2017 | 8 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="KaeruJim"Or it's possible you are wrong and had RS remained in charge it would have given is the best chance of the 6 this year, given how far in we are. Then again, I don't believe Harry Potter could conjure a SL title from our team right now so it's a moot point really.
I also clocked (and liked) our forwards taking the yardage carries a little more against KR, and the backs that joined in seemed to do it at more effective times. Which is partly why we were looking better because we were threatening their 50/40m line at the end of sets more. Frawley is way more accurate at that range than from our own half.
Overall I'm confident BA is a more effective coach than RS, but either way our squad needs surgery again it seems.'"
I'm not so sure Jim I think RS is right up there with Brad Arthur...
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 1213 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2009 | 15 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="KaeruJim"Overall I'm confident BA is a more effective coach than RS'"
In other news, water is wet.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 432 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Apr 2019 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I just listened to the RS interview on WYS. Thought it was quite interesting for a few reasons. What is obvious and comes across is that he's a decent bloke, and clearly had the best interests of the club at heart.
One really interesting point he made is that the club wasn't in that bad a position when he came in. As fans, I think we can be quick to over-emphasise the problems within the club from an outside perspective because we don't see the inner workings. If you were to look at the club aside, from the first team performance, (women's team, academy, learning / physical disability teams, MND work etc.) you would say it's in a fantastic place. I saw Danny Houghton recently question why fans thought the club was toxic just because they were losing, and I think we probably have a similar view here.
What's clear is that being a champion team is all about effective use of the salary cap. Wigan are able to spend £300k more than us, because they use it more effectively with dispensation of home grown talent, which has allowed them to supplement this with better overseas players.
I think there were fundamental issues with the RS philosophy. I think he expected every ruck in SL to be super quick, and based his entire game plan around quick ruck speed. When that wasn't the case (which I sympathise with as the ruck is appalling), there was no plan B to fall back on and the players looked completely directionless.
We do need a coach though who is of the same mind, carefully bring through emerging talent, create clear pathways for youth, stop gambling on players who are massively injury prone and only play half a season, and we will see the fruits of that. The question now, is whether BA is the man to do that or not.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 9588 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Actually, I think some of the things you mention there about structure and pathways is the realm of the SD not the Head Coach. I did wonder if RS would be a better administrator than coach, perhaps.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1906 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="exiledrhino"I just listened to the RS interview on WYS. Thought it was quite interesting for a few reasons. What is obvious and comes across is that he's a decent bloke, and clearly had the best interests of the club at heart.
One really interesting point he made is that the club wasn't in that bad a position when he came in. As fans, I think we can be quick to over-emphasise the problems within the club from an outside perspective because we don't see the inner workings. If you were to look at the club aside, from the first team performance, (women's team, academy, learning / physical disability teams, MND work etc.) you would say it's in a fantastic place. I saw Danny Houghton recently question why fans thought the club was toxic just because they were losing, and I think we probably have a similar view here.
What's clear is that being a champion team is all about effective use of the salary cap. Wigan are able to spend £300k more than us, because they use it more effectively with dispensation of home grown talent, which has allowed them to supplement this with better overseas players.
I think there were fundamental issues with the RS philosophy. I think he expected every ruck in SL to be super quick, and based his entire game plan around quick ruck speed. When that wasn't the case (which I sympathise with as the ruck is appalling), there was no plan B to fall back on and the players looked completely directionless.
We do need a coach though who is of the same mind, carefully bring through emerging talent, create clear pathways for youth, stop gambling on players who are massively injury prone and only play half a season, and we will see the fruits of that. The question now, is whether BA is the man to do that or not.'"
Smith is probably a decent bloke, but the harsh fact of the matter he is incompetent and has completely devasted the playing side of the club. Look at the amount of poor players in the squad. Most of these players will have to be jettisoned before we can start to rebuild. Compare us with Salford, we took two star players from them, yet by and large they still perform better than us. Problems with the ruck? Any decent coach will recognize and rectify the situation. No doubt the club is well run with women’s team, disabled rugby etc etc, at the end of the day the success of the club boils down to the performance and success of the first team. Check out the league table. Not to mention the fact that we have had to bring in an emergency coach to try and stem the free fall. He will probably leave at the end of the season. At the moment not much seems to be happening regarding recruitment for next season. Apart from the signing of a 37 year old winger. You make a list of what in incoming coach should undertake, I fully agree with that unfortunately all these points Smith spectacular failed on. Hence the complete mess we are in.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1906 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2024 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="batleyrhino"Actually, I think some of the things you mention there about structure and pathways is the realm of the SD not the Head Coach. I did wonder if RS would be a better administrator than coach, perhaps.'"
Interesting point.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 4949 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Done, finito
Another season down the drain. Cannot see being any better next year unless we can offload half the side and most of the pack
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Captain | 4719 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2018 | 6 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2024 | Aug 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Best chance we have is replacing Fus and Martin with real high quality NRL forwards, working like hell with our young players over the next 5 months and keeping Arthur in post.
Under those conditions we could do better, and then we should have more cap and possibly quota for 2026. It does look like most of the signings made under RS, whoever has been responsible for the names and the budget, have failed to take us forward.
Blease has a bigger job on maybe than he realised.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Fringe Player | 1265 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2021 | 3 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Well while Smith's style was a big problem, clearly so is the squad. Its not top 6 quality, which given we're at the cap is quite astonishing. We've invested heavily in the backs but have very little punch there, and our forwards as a group are among the worst in the league.
We'll keep talking about not giving up, plenty of games etc, but this season is done. The focus should now be on working out who we want to keep, and giving some time to younger players to show what they can do.
Smith did one good thing in terms of squad. He showed its possible to shift players who are under contract. Sadly he didn't get rid of some of the players who continue to fail, and signed too many who have become part of the problem. To have a serious go at moving up next year we'll need more than one or two changes, but it looks like its going to take at least two rounds of getting recruitment decisions right before we genuinely compete.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 9588 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| In a way it’s good that we’ve fallen short, there can be no misunderstandings, nothing is unclear, the squad is simply miles off being good enough to compete. We have a few players out of contract this off season (Fusitua, Martin, Donaldson, Johnson, Roberts) and plenty more the year after. I think Blease needs to be telling some of those out of contract at the end of ‘25 that they are free to find another club now as they will not be renewed again. Some will take this up and move on creating more cap space and perhaps even more quota spots.
I’m struggling to think of many players who I would be heartbroken to see leave. With enough cap space and quota spots available, perhaps we can convince BA to stay and fix the project. We need to have either him, or someone with his experience and quality, otherwise we are in for another loop of poor coach and poor squad that will take another 2-3 years for someone else to fix.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 285 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Sep 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I don't really understand how Smith gets praise for getting rid of substandard players when the squad is still full of substandard players. Removing poor players and then replacing them with poor players isn't a positive. It's just more of our continued cycle of never moving forward because our decision making is so poor.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 13634 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Well London have just done us a massive favour!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 5018 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Sep 2006 | 18 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="tomlufc"I don't really understand how Smith gets praise for getting rid of substandard players when the squad is still full of substandard players. Removing poor players and then replacing them with poor players isn't a positive. It's just more of our continued cycle of never moving forward because our decision making is so poor.'"
I agree and I have posted this on another thread:
Quote ="The Biffs Back"This shows just how bad our recruitment of the head coaching role has been since Brian Mac left the club, and also the players that they have then signed during their head coaching role.
Our transition started after the 2015 season IMO and although we won a GF in 2017, we also had to endure 2 seasons in the "middle 8's" either side of this triumph
So our transition period is now in it's 8th year,which is absolutely ridiculous for a club with our resources
Both Leigh and Salford have been far better sides recently than we have been and that is despite them not having an academy system to feed players into their first team squad
So in reality these 2 clubs have made good head coaching choices and that they have also recruited players from rival clubs and this has enabled them to finished above us'"
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Fringe Player | 1265 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2021 | 3 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Even with all the other problems, if we'd focused strongly on developing juniors over that whole period we'd be in far better shape today. Quite ironic given that the success of the 'Golden Generation' was built on homegrown players.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 81 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2011 | 14 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Dec 2024 | Dec 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Once were Loiners"Even with all the other problems, if we'd focused strongly on developing juniors over that whole period we'd be in far better shape today. Quite ironic given that the success of the 'Golden Generation' was built on homegrown players.'"
Couldn't agree more. Leeds have never bought a sucessful team, buying bigname players destroys morale of the academy lads and the best look elswhere.
The trouble is if you don't give the lads game time they will never improve. Jack Sinfield springs to mind as a case in point. Being kept out of the team by bang average players on a huge salary and the coach must feel obliged to pick them.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
New Signing | 14 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Aug 2024 | 0 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2024 | Nov 2024 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| I think the loss at Salford was fatal to our Play Off chances. I think Salford and Catalans will pick up at least 6 points each from their remaining fixtures which means 5 wins out of 7 would rely on points difference. Getting 6 wins is probably the requirement but that is a very tall order. I think the plan has got to be let’s keep improving under Brad for the remainder of the season and give it a bloody good go, starting with Wigan tomorrow.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 1473 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2011 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote ="Once were Loiners"Even with all the other problems, if we'd focused strongly on developing juniors over that whole period we'd be in far better shape today. Quite ironic given that the success of the 'Golden Generation' was built on homegrown players.'"
Maybe we’ve not had the required quality coming through the system ? There has been a lot of false dawns with youngsters coming through touted as heirs to the throne of the golden generation. From Baldwinson to Lilley, walker to Tindall, and even Cameron Smith if we’re being honest, they’ve just not been good enough. If they’re not good enough or tough enough it’s hard to blame the club for not nurturing them. In comparison to the quality that has come through the Saints and Wigan systems over the last 7 or 8 years it’s not hard to see why our youngsters haven’t given us a springboard to success. Those two clubs have also added top quality signings from down under to elevate them even further above us. If we’re missing Ellery Hanley’s and Jason Robinson’s on our own doorstep that’s a different kettle of fish, but I don’t think there’s been a lax attitude to youth development at Headingley. I think the poor overseas signing have excaserbated the lack of quality coming through the system.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Coach | 24505 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2004 | 20 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| or possibly signed potentially great players but the pathway, or more likely, poor coaches have ruined their chances.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Junior Player | 18 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2024 | 1 year | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Agree with the above comment regarding the Salford loss being fatal. Our play off chances ended right there and then unfortunately.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 13634 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Nov 2002 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | Jan 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Win our next 4 games then we give ourselves a chance.
They are all winnable if we back up the Wigan performance.
Warrington
Catalans (4 pointer)
London
Hull
We need Wigan and Hull KR to help us out at magic
|
|
|
|
|