Whilst totally understanding and accepting a lot of the comments i will say last night wasnt a coaching, tactical or even selection issue. The attitude and effort on show from the players from minute 1 was nowhere near acceptable and they are responsible and accountable for that.

I understand tho that Agar is responsible for performances.

Ive no idea but i do wonder how much coaching he does these days or if Long and JJB do most of it.

I know if i was a player and JJB started waffling on i would turn off quickly. He was a great servant but i just cant listen to him personally.

Hetherington’s not going to sack Agar. Simply not going to happen because they are family. He’s not going to sack a member of his own family so the best we can hope for is for Agar to walk away or a move upstairs.

There has been too little ambition in new signings. Losing Gale should oy have been done to bring someone else in. It's clear we needed a prop, and whilst you need the likes of Thompson in a squad, you should use to cover issues, not be regular. We don't have enough props as we're not far off first choice pack, and still look lightweight

The thing is, bar bringing a player or two in we are stuck with our squad of players- for this year at least. Now I do not think the team put out last night was as bad as last night shows, so unfortunately for Agar that means he’s the only thing we can realistically change at this point.

Yes we are a prop or two light, but so are Warrington and they haven’t or wont put in a performance like that this season.

What do we do though, is there anyone available? Ward has just taken a job in RU, is there anything to suggest Long can step up for the rest of the year?

Tony Smith is out of contract next year at Hull KR, could that be an option, I doubt he’d want the job though.

Im at a loss to be honest to suggest what needs doing.

We look poorly coached Chris. That;s what needs to change. Agar has served a purpose and has done a decent job all in all. He turned the ship around but he's not capable of taking us back to where we should be. We need a quality head coach coming in and sharpish.

If it is Agar out there needs to be a well thought out plan. If the plan were to be Long and JJB as a temporary coaching team it's a massive no from me. Need to go for the best available in order to facilitate real change. If the long term plan was to move Agar upstairs, would that be in doubt? If the team are stagnating because the quality of players, or squad strengthening strategy hasn't been good enough, wouldn't that put a question mark on his suitability for the role? I honestly don't know. But I do know that these are decisions the club absolutely has to get right, otherwise the whole post McDermott era will have proved to be one long false dawn. They need to avoid reacting in haste.

We’ve turned into every team Agar has previously coached, clueless with or without the ball. He has to be moved out of the coaching role. There are coaches out there that would kill for the Leeds job, we have been poor for at least 5 years but the challenge to turn us around would be irresistible for many.

I’d like to see us bring in a coach that has no previous connection to the club, so there’s no baggage, and they can completely reshape the playing squad and style over 3 years. I think this probably means we are going to Aus for the new coach.

Agar is a good bloke and doesn’t deserve a set of players who have no desire. He will go very soon as wants the best for the club.

Ill be honest and im a bit despondent about the whole set up at the moment, as people on here know im usually one to look at positives but im struggling with that at the moment.

The performances

The bargain basement kit and apparel supplier pushing tat every week (the first year in over 25 years I haven’t bought a replica shirt as I can’t get one that fits)

The state of the pitch

Playing on Thursday nights constantly in poor weather

The club has everything going for it, IMO the best stadium and complex in RL, a recent history of success and a rich history to draw upon

A great youth setup and some great players coming through


And yet everything is just so flat and meh!

Over the last few years ive been watching some of the older games that the club put on youtube throughout covid, I watched a Leeds V Saints game from 2007 (i think) recently, we were fantastic, amazing atmosphere, exciting free flowing rugby utterly ruthless in defence.

We seem a different world away!

Great post Chris. Agree. The Thursday night games are awful for all sorts of reasons, they are bad for the sport imo. I don't go to them, because of work and i can't take my daughter as it's too late a finish for her when it's school next morning. The pitch is terrible but will hopefully be sorted by the back end of summer but by then it's looking like another season written off. It really is deflating.

To add i quite liked the six again rule but have since changed my mind, partly because it’s implemented so badly, if its on tackles 1 - 3 it should be a penalty or it should be a penalty if a team is in their own half.

How many times do we see teams deliberately giving a six away again on the first tackle, it also seems s bit of a lottery as to when they are given which is annoying for fans - im not having a go at refs here either they are just implementing a stupid rule.

Ive no issue with the clampdown on head shots, I think the players need to adapt, maybe the refs are a bit too keen to bring out cards but it isn’t as big an issue for me as it seems for some.

Hull certainly aren’t average when they have a full team,but last night they had a patched up team on a 4 day turnaround,plus suffered more injuries during the game.Some Leeds players had a lacklustre attitude,thinking they only had to turn up to win

Thought I had wandered on to the Hull forum from a few seasons ago.

Whilst its starting to get to the point of me wanting Rich replaced, he shouldnt be the only one from our coaching team to go.

Rich - Was brought to the club in some pathway development role, ends up being our head coach, been better than i initially thought he would but still a small time hire at the time.

Long - Was actually intrigued when we hired him, been an absolute disaster imo, our attack has been comicaly bad under him for the most part

JJB - Club legend, no coaching experience

Walker - Came back in 2017 working for Leeds foundation looking for youngsters with athletic traits who could maybe try RL and adapt them traits to RL, suddenly he's coaching our Academy and now our reserves, no experience, but again, ex player...largely been poor considering the talent at his disposal, talks absolute nonsense aswel, obviously thats just my opinion.

Butterill - Finally, we get to U16 level, arguably the biggest club in the country has to go as far down as Scholorship to find a coach who's regarded as one of the best at what he does, Quality coach proven over years.

Agree with all of what’s been said, but honest to God as a wire fan and looking at our bowling Green of a pitch I’ve got to ask what on Earth your ground staff have actually been doing the last 6 months? It’s absolutely diabolical and quite simply unbelievably bad for an organisation of your size and stature. It’s genuinely amongst the worst I’ve seen at Super League level. It’s “only a pitch” but is it indicative of the malaise at the club? Very strange….

I have to say last night was the worst performance I have seen Leeds give since the very very dark days of the sad McDermott days just before the end
I would say that at 60 minutes at least 75% of those in my seating area had gone - its a worry
Cannot imagine what score would have been if Gale would have been available to avenge himself

We have a far better squad than the performances they are producing, and it's been like that for 18 months under Agar. They are very poorly coached.

I feel like I read stuff like that after every defeat over 20 points. Hull KR away early in Furner's reign was worse.

Walker Is the one I dislike. Left us like we did Nada for him. Why are we going him out? Clearly clueless……

My 1st time on here for months, for years we have been in transition, we are no further forward than 5 years ago. This Agar chap has no more idea than me. He’s clueless, the guy needs sacking and to never step back in Headingley, looking at JJB tonight, the club is bottom of the league and he’s spending his time on Sky Tv giving his so called expert opinion, if only he could make the same effort to the club who has supported him over the years. The whole coaching set needs to be sorted out, along with the conditioning team, enough of this rubbish. Having spoken to my neighbour who is close to one of the players, it’s obvious, the coach has lost the team. Agar interview last night was a disgrace any coach coming out with such rubbish should have been sacked last night , but he still here, a total disgrace.

Brodie, what parts of his interview were so bad? I think the press have given him a ridiculously easy ride at times, but they did the same with BM as well. Never any follow-up after one of his vague answers, never any detailed questions about selection. Its not about trying to wind him up or be nasty - just ask some of the questions any Leeds fan would want to know. Instead we get drivel from Agar about lacking intent, and he's just left to say that without any further questions. He's also never asked specific questions about players who like awful. If he doesn't get asked he's not going to answer.

Out of interest despite us having a supposedly Good squad , how many of those players are genuinely international players? I mean starting internationals now. Compare that to the other top teams and is revealing…..

I just wonder now Sinfield has left, because he was fed up of spending long hours every day of doing Gary's work instead of what he should have been doing, if Agar is now doing similar along with Kev's job and the coaching is getting done more by others?

I dont know, its just a thought. Rich used to go to all junior games, ive not seen him at one yet. Suggests hes tied up elsewhere.

Whilst i understand the calls for his head after that embarrassment Thursday maybe its time we look above the head of the coach to a guy whos well into his 60s now and maybe holding back the club that he built so magnificently.

Maybe it’s no coincidence that we seem to have dropped off since Sinfield left?

I too understand the Agar Out sentiment no one was more disappointed than me about the shambles in Thursday i do think it’s not just down to him, as ive out in the general club thread there seems to be a few areas where the whole club is falling short.

In some respects that game on Thursday could be a blessing in disguise if the club now take stock of where we are and where we want to be.

Im probably reading way too much into this but i was a bit annoyed at JJB last night laughing and joking about the situation and joking that he’s taking notes from lomax at the ‘touch screen’ with John Wells, he’s our assistant coach FFS, not sure you’d see Wellens doing the same or someone like McGuire.

I remember Sinfield getting interviewed by Bryan Carney after sacking Furner and he was visibly annoyed at the situation and you could see he was serious about trying to sort it out.

My suspicion is that the club (and seemingly many of its fans) have gradually lost track of what a title winning quality player looks like. To pick an example, I've lost track of how many times I've been told Matt Prior's a good player. Which is true to an extent until you compare with the likes of JP. I can't be d going through the whole side but there's a really high percentage that compare unfavourably with the stalwarts of the last great Leeds team or the Saints of today. Those gaps could be reduced if the players - young and old - wanted to badly enough and were helped to do so. Personally, I'm not convinced by either the desire or of the support and guidance.