Shenton has also always been a good defender. Arguably the course of the 2011 Grand Final turned on his injury with Leeds overcoming an eight point deficit in the final quarter.

If England have any chance of giving either Australia or NZ a game this autumn I'd say we need a "Powell-like" approach to attacking which means picking Shenton and having our best winger outside him (Hall).

Was having a discussion earlier in the year when somebody was saying we should just pick all of Cas' left edge including Eden on the wing. Pointed out though that in Wayne Bennett England will not play ANYWHERE near the Cas style.

I'm sure they'll be some moans when the England squad is announced and probably doesn't feature enough Cas players for some people's liking but there's no point picking them and asking them to play a complete different way which is what would happen.

I agree. They might have a chance if Powell were in charge and he'd had opportunity to get the squad together to develop his kind of style.

Unfortunately England haven't a prayer, they may give NZ a game if we're lucky but no chance versus Australia, especially playing the style employed last time.

Suppose what i was trying to say is that Eden made a quite a number of tries with his acrobatics, a different winger may have been bundled into touch and the try not scored. In my personal opinion had Shenton had a different winger outside him I don't think he would/should have made the team!

If Hall or McGilvary had been outside him they'd have used power to score rather than acrobatics. Don't deny Eden has taken some very well but he's not as amazing as the try scoring charts suggest. A lot has been down to the service he gets. For that you have to look not only at Shenton but the players inside him that guarantee his service. Even Egodo scored 3 last week thanks to the way Cas play rather than any amazing unique ability on his part.

I don't think Hall and probably McGilvary would have got a fair chunk of the tries Eden has scored this year. Forget the power, still not scored. Cas work really hard specifically on those acrobatic things you mention in training, and have been rewarded for it.

Of course there will have been other opportunities that Eden has blown which the likes of Hall or McGilvary would have probably scored. I don't think that makes Eden any more special, but it would be wrong to say Hall or McGilvary would have scored the tries he has scored, as they simply don't have that skill set in their locker.

Eden had a good season, and this years try tally alone has got him into the dream team, and thats fine. But most of his try's are handed on a plate, but you can't compare him to a consistently good year in year out winger like mcgilvery or arguably one of the best two wingers ever in super league in Hall. (along with big Les)

I didn't compare him to anybody, and you would be wrong to say most were handed on a plate, although some were. I mearly stated that of the tries he has scored, a fair chunk of them, would not have been scored by those other wingers mentioned, and nothing more than that.

I actually wish they'd go back to the old rule where you couldn't touch the flag. Yes it looks good when they jump in the air but you see it so often now that I'm actually a bit bored of it and it took more work as a team to get a player in without touching the flag.

I am in agreement, and I think a lot of players actually make it look harder than it is purely for the entertainment of it. However, some clubs, Cas been one of them, have actually worked hard on this particular skill set, and it can hardly be said it hasn't paid off for them.

Wasn't it a relatively unnecessary leap into the corner that saw Eden knacker his shoulder earlier in the year?

RL is in the entertainment business nothing more nothing less. If the occasional sepectacular elevates the game from the dreary offering most games are these days that most be a good thing surely

At first yes, but you get them every week now that it's lost its excitement value for me, especially when you're seeing guys do it when they actually don't need to and could've gotten it without the dive. It's just making the skill of a team getting over the oppositions tryline easier because you're effectively giving them more room to do so.

Excitement should be a try that only a few players could score like the Hall effort vs Aus where he did Slaters shoulder and didn't touch the flag. How many times you see ones like that and how many wingers could score it? These jumping ones touching the flag, you're getting them weekly and by most wingers.

Hall scored that try because he weighed about 3 stone more than Slater a bit like Big Les it was just a question of size. Now a try like Donald's in the 2007 Gf where he left Wellens for dead then you are talking. A great try isn't just the plonking the ball over the line it's the build up that creates the opportunity which is why Cas have been so good to watch this season

Very harsh to say that try is all about Hall's weight advantage. Took great reactions and skill to come off that collision and get the ball down in time. Another one from memory, Ali's vs Wigan in 2006 when he managed to squeeze into the corner. It was entirely possible to squeeze into the corner without hitting the flag, you didn't see it week in week out though which made them all the more special instead of the weekly dive over the corner flag competition we see nowadays.

So you think if Hall was the same size as Slater he scores not a chance

Neither of our wingers has the athleticism to score the tries Eden does Eden couldn't score the tries Hall does variety is what makes the game entertaining and at the end that is the whole purpose of the game.

If Leeds had wingers who could score these type of tries you wouldn't be tired of it. The corner flag should be in play the posts are in play there is nowhere else on the field where your feet can be in play but your body not

I dont think England will take the risks of Cas but in general, most of the Cas tries have come from structured (usually double) block plays so timing and combinations will be really important

I think we should pick the entire Cas left edge including McMeeken but swap Eden for Hall (dont trust Eden in defence)

Removing the corner flag from the equation just removed an oddity in the rules whereby the corners of the pitch were treated differently to the rest of the field. I've no problem with it at all, and whilst the diving tries are a bit more common, its also making up for the fact that cover defences now are so much better than they used to be. A few years ago in the NRL wingers virtually stopped going for the corner at all because defences would smash them into touch. Now they can't do that quite as effectively because the best wingers add half a yard to the width of the pitch. Why would anyone rather see wingers dying with the ball instead of going for the try?

As for Hall, he scored 30 tries plus a year for 4 seasons in a row to 2012. Coincidence or otherwise since the arrival of Moon his strike rate fell markedly. This year in 32 games of a season when we've played well enough to finish second he's scored 14 tries. From what I've seen Cas would only need to make minor adjustments to get Hall over the line close to as often as Eden. Leeds by contrast show virtually no intent to get Hall into a position to use his strength to score. Even in big wins in the CC this year (Doncaster, Barrow and Fev), where we scored 35 tries in total, just 4 came from the wingers across those games. In our last two league games this year we've scored 14 tries with just one by a winger (Briscoe).

My issue with that is that it suggests there isn't even the intent to get the winger over the line. Whilst I don't think Moon helps in regard to getting the ball wider he's not solely to blame.

No but to put it all down to size is daft.



I would be bored of them regardless of who scored them. It's saying you don't really have to break a defence down properly anymore, just let the winger have 75/80% of his body hanging out of the field and just reach back infield with his arm. It's a shortcut I liken to the rule they recently got rid off in that a FB could make a good kick in goal dead by having one foot over the dead ball line instead of challenging him to bring it back.

If it's become harder to score because of better cover defences you don't add a shortcut so they can still score, you challenge them to overcome the improved defence.

Top level sport shouldn't use the view it became too hard so we made it easier.

Cas this season have shown wingers can once again score tries. We owe a lot to Senior in the past, Calderwood, Bai, Donald and Hall all scored 20+ tries a season outside Senior whilst he scored a fair number himself.

Amongst other things we need a good /wing partnership where either are just as likely to score making the opposition defence work overtime!

The rules were changed due to some good try's being disallowed due to some very marginal contact brushes with the corner flag. Which I think was right decision. But this leaping in the air does not do it for me. Personally I would like the rule similar to the NFL, if you hit the corner flag but one or both your feet are in play then it's a try. If you leap into the air and hit the flag while placing the ball down your out. Probably get the he best of both worlds then.

Cas have also revitalised Jake Webster's career. Imagine what they could do with Kallum Watkins? Ergo England should employ the entire Cas team, irrespective of nationality, except for Hall & Watkins.

Wigan have been doing it fine for several seasons now.