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| Quote ="PrinterThe" A back three including Walker at FB and Golding at wing won't be able to make the metres that we need to help the forwards, it's too lightweight, Watkins wouldn't be, he's played well there before and scored a decent amount of tries whilst Golding struggled in the past on the wing.
Keeping Watkins at centre because you want our centres to get good ball when in reality it's highly unlikely isn't a must. If the kick chase isn't spot on by the opposition he's got the most potential to take advantage of it out of the other wing options mentioned.
Briscoe needs to be taken out of the firing line. After being hauled off against Cas but coming back with a couple of tries to beat Wakey away several weeks ago I was hopeful that would kickstart him but it's just not happening.'"
I agree with your team posted elsewhere ,except that I would not include Ferres...send him on a 3 week training session with Yorkshire regiment until loses weight and gets fit. Agree on not having walker at FB..for me his defence last time we played Wigan was poor and Golding bailed him out. However if Golding is needed on wing I disagree with your comment he was shown up in this position. He actually played more times on wing than FB in 2016..He scored on his first outing against Salford in April and later in April against Saints, even though we lost that match.
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| Quote ="Mark Laurie"Whoever gets picked will have their hands full with joe Burgess. He is excellent on end of Williams kicks either in behind on ground or in the air and miles quicker than any Leeds back.'"
Watkins apart
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| I think we've gone way past Briscoe playing himsen out of bad form. Waaaay past that at this stage. Think its best we take him out the firing line to be honest. The bloke looks completely shot to pieces.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Watkins apart'"
One other thing away from what position Watkins should play that got lost in the result on Saturday is that I continue to be impressed with how his goal kicking is coming on. Those two in the 1st half, one was a mid-ish range and the other from out wide and they looked good from the moment they left his boot. Gone above Golding in the pecking order and should be ahead of Sutcliffe too if they both play. Only have Lilley still ahead of him and if Watkins continues to improve st this rate he could overtake him soon.
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"Keinhorst is clearly a centre, he came through as one and has played the majority of his games there, he can fill in at 2nd row if needed but doesn't really have the size to play there consistently. Saying he's being played out of position is silly.
Of course the defensive side of playing wing is important and again that's why I'd go for Watkins. He's played a decent amount of games there and will have a very good understanding of the defensive side of it having been a part of the right side defence for several years now. Do you think he doesn't know what BJB or Briscoe's roles entailed? Like I said considering he's played there before and he would probably have to fill in there mid game if the winger got injured he will know the role very well. It'll be part of his training to know it in case of mid game injuries.
I have no worries about him catching, can't be any worst than Briscoe ATM.
Keinhorst offers good defence and would going for Lilley and Moon on that left edge be better than Keinhorst and Moon in defence?
Briscoe has been struggling for too long now, he needs taking out of the team for a while and hope that helps him.'"
Briscoe knows what the winger role involves - there is a difference between theory and actually doing it. I don't know but I would hazard a guess that Watkins has played <10% of his time on the wing.
Lilley and Moon would offer more structure and creativity than Keinhorst and Moon - I suppose its horses for courses and what is the best compromise.
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| It is sure going to be a difficult choice this Friday.
Maybe Briscoe and Watkins can interchange like Hall and Handley did recently?
I would keep Golding at FB and keep Moon and McGuire in the halves with Lilley on the bench.
The forwards need one mighty kick up the backside otherwise Wigan will bully us and leave us for dead.
On the other hand from what some posters are saying Briscoe is not interacting with the rest of the team and might be heading for a bout of depression. So let`s not hang him out to dry just yet.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Briscoe knows what the winger role involves - there is a difference between theory and actually doing it. I don't know but I would hazard a guess that Watkins has played <10% of his time on the wing.
Lilley and Moon would offer more structure and creativity than Keinhorst and Moon - I suppose its horses for courses and what is the best compromise.'"
Briscoe knows what the wingers role involves but struggling badly to actually do it. Him struggling is not going to help those defenders inside of him if they're being told they need to help him out as he's really struggling, more than likely lead to them making bad calls and reads if they don't have confidence in the guy defending outside them.
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| If he's in, put some attacking kicks to his wing for him to go after. Get him involved and back in the swing of making decisions that way rather than merely in a defensive way.
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"Briscoe knows what the wingers role involves but struggling badly to actually do it. Him struggling is not going to help those defenders inside of him if they're being told they need to help him out as he's really struggling, more than likely lead to them making bad calls and reads if they don't have confidence in the guy defending outside them.'"
Who is to say that whoever replaces him will not struggle in a position they are not used to playing?
Better to work on providing him with protection or replace him with a winger e.g. Handley
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| Sam Powell will miss this game due being banned for his tackle on Lama Tasi.
Probably won't disrupt Wigan too much.
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| Quote ="Sal Paradise"Who is to say that whoever replaces him will not struggle in a position they are not used to playing?
Better to work on providing him with protection or replace him with a winger e.g. Handley'"
He knows how to play wing, you're making it sound like I'm suggesting putting Garbutt on the wing. Centres and wings know how to do each other's position.
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| Wasn't Briscoe dropped for the Cas game & replaced by Handley?
That worked out well.
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| Quote ="Old Feller"Wasn't Briscoe dropped for the Cas game & replaced by Handley?
That worked out well.
'"
Whilst I wouldn't endorse Handley playing (isn't he injured ATM), you could've put some of the best wingers of all time on our wing that night and we'd still have been battered.
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| we would, but handley simply hasn't kicked on for me. I would be looking for an outside replacement.
also it just highlights how poor our right hand side is, and continues to be.
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| I'd keep Briscoe in, and try and work out a way to give him more protection - applying some kick pressure would be a start! The only real alternative we have is to move Watkins out to the wing, but I'm not sure that's the way to go.
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"I'd keep Briscoe in, and try and work out a way to give him more protection - applying some kick pressure would be a start! The only real alternative we have is to move Watkins out to the wing, but I'm not sure that's the way to go.'"
I don't think it's just the kicks though, all round he has seemed not with it. Honestly think it'd do more harm than good to keep him in hoping he'll come good. He's scored 2 tries vs Wakey and 2 vs Salford recently and they haven't seemed to boost his confidence.
At this stage of the season we can't have a player out there and telling others we effectively need to hold his hand.....I know that sounds harsh but I honestly wish the guy the best and would love nothing more than for Friday's game to be decided by a 79th minute Tom Brisxoe match winning try or match saving tackle. I just don't think keeping him playing is the route to go. He has made the joint most appearances this year and will have only played less minutes to Hall because of coming off at the Magic Weekend, continuing to play him isn't working.
If I was coach I'd tell him to take a few weeks off and go recharge his batteries and get away from RL for a couple of weeks. We're almost fully fit barring Galloway so we get through these next 3 games and then after the week off for Wembley we bring him back in for the final 4 league games and see where he's at.
He's seems just so at rock bottom confidence and body language wise I honestly think keeping him out there when you know he's going to be targeted is bordering on cruel, it might sound like jumping to conclusions but when you think about what we've heard from the likes of Stevie Ward and depression in the game I am seriously worrying about him, another horror show against Wigan and where does he go from there?
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"I don't think it's just the kicks though, all round he has seemed not with it. Honestly think it'd do more harm than good to keep him in hoping he'll come good. He's scored 2 tries vs Wakey and 2 vs Salford recently and they haven't seemed to boost his confidence.
At this stage of the season we can't have a player out there and telling others we effectively need to hold his hand.....I know that sounds harsh but I honestly wish the guy the best and would love nothing more than for Friday's game to be decided by a 79th minute Tom Brisxoe match winning try or match saving tackle. I just don't think keeping him playing is the route to go. He has made the joint most appearances this year and will have only played less minutes to Hall because of coming off at the Magic Weekend, continuing to play him isn't working.
If I was coach I'd tell him to take a few weeks off and go recharge his batteries and get away from RL for a couple of weeks. We're almost fully fit barring Galloway so we get through these next 3 games and then after the week off for Wembley we bring him back in for the final 4 league games and see where he's at.
He's seems just so at rock bottom confidence and body language wise I honestly think keeping him out there when you know he's going to be targeted is bordering on cruel, it might sound like jumping to conclusions but when you think about what we've heard from the likes of Stevie Ward and depression in the game I am seriously worrying about him, another horror show against Wigan and where does he go from there?'"
I think you make some good points but one thing that contradicts one your point is: Leeds are second despite carrying a player all season. What is going to change if the table is a true reflection of where the teams are?
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| I hope Mac picks Briscoe. Dropping him will destroy him. If it was me, I'd want to be on the field, not stewing in the stands. He was publicly backed by his coach straight after the game, so he needs to pull up his Y-fronts and box on.
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| Quote ="PrinterThe"He knows how to play wing, you're making it sound like I'm suggesting putting Garbutt on the wing. Centres and wings know how to do each other's position.'"
What you are suggesting is taking the best player in his position in the competition and playing him out of position - madness in my view.
It looks to me that your more worried about Wigan's attacking threat than what Leeds' attack can do to Wigan.
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| Quote ="TheSnowmonkey"I agree with your team posted elsewhere ,except that I would not include Ferres...send him on a 3 week training session with Yorkshire regiment until loses weight and gets fit. Agree on not having walker at FB..for me his defence last time we played Wigan was poor and Golding bailed him out. However if Golding is needed on wing I disagree with your comment he was shown up in this position. He actually played more times on wing than FB in 2016..He scored on his first outing against Salford in April and later in April against Saints, even though we lost that match.'"
I agree with you regarding Ferris, despite his experience he currently looks slow and ineffectual and lacks discipline. Briscoe has totally lost the plot and needs taking out of the firing line. Wing these days is a more specialised and important position that centre and for that reason I would move Watkins there where in fact he could have more opportunity to run with the ball.
So Sutcliffe and Keinhorst in the centres with Ward given a role to stiffen up the right side from second row.
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| We were unable to put any kick pressure on Sneyd - Hull's only kicker - so I can't see that we'll be able or willing to do that against Wigan who have at least two last tackle kick options in Williams & Leuluai.
Putting pressure on either or both those will leave gaps elsewhere that Wigan will surely exploit.
We need to get more bodies around the defender. Easier said than done.
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| All Williams does is a little grubber with the outside of his foot 9/10 times. Can read him like a book.
Obviously won't do it if Briscoe is playing like.
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| Delaney returns to the 19 and Briscoe keeps his place.
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| Golding
Briscoe
Watkins
Moon
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Parcell
Cuthbertson
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JJB
Ward
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Delaney
Singleton
Garbutt
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| Going to be a long night Friday watching Briscoe how not to defend a high ball. I expect Burgess to get at least a hat tick.
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