If Caddick kicks GH's arris the blue prints are there & it's what surprises me most we not only have the formula we bleedin created it with GH leading the way & he was ruthless without flinching.

You mean like cronulla last year? Came from nowhere to champions, it can be done

Cronulla being able to sign a crucial spine of 1,6,7 and 9 (Barba, Maloney, Townsend, Ennis) over the course of 12 months certainly helped their cause.

The same cannot be achieved in SL due to insufficient player pool talent, a very limited salary cap and a moribund transfer market.

I wouldn't my James Greenwood from KR. Also if they do persist with BM I hope the bring in an attacking minded assistant coach.

After the Cas game I have taken a couple of days to let it sink in before posting,was it really that bad a performance?YES probably the worst for twenty years as for the future f**k knows but looking back to when Caddick&Hetherington arrived and did a root and branch makeover and made us the best in the business on and off the pitch.the bit they seems to have missed is that raising playing/coaching/stadium standards to a high level also involves a raising of expectation that those standards will continue,and that involves continuos review of things like the academy which a few seasons ago we were the pinnacle and A standard in this country.so maybe mr Hetherington needs a good hard look at himself and the whole club and become the guy who took over in95/96 instead of the supremo or el capitano of super league that he imagines he is.get back to basics Gary we as fans deserve the expectations you raised to be met

I think most of us are agreed on what needs to happen. For better or worse, the club often decides to go a different way.

I hope it is just a matter of GH wanting to behave in what he thinks is a dignified manner regarding the coaching situation. If not, barring an unexpected win against Catalans, the following fixture against Wakefield may well be seen as a must-win by the powers that be. I'd imagine we'd be firmly out of the top 8 in that scenario, with a difficult Easter period ahead.

Ward would be my shout for captain but I would want to see if he can remain injury free wouldn't want to jinx him.

I would keep Burrow not only as a sub , ( I cannot understand why on here and other threads people want to drop or let him go..crazy !!!! ) but for his coaching skills. He has nurtured some great kids in U16s.
Whilst I like Golding and think he has lot of potential I would buy back Judah Mazive ( Wakey are wasting him on the wing ) he has potential to be best FB in SL ..still in England Youth set up...brilliant hand skills and dazzling footwork. Let Burrow have a few sessions with him to bring out that creativity again.

Not keen on Mullally but think Ormondroyd might develop into something useful

Of the youngsters would keep Cameron Smith, Joshua Jordan -Roberts and Mikolaj Oledzki all three very promising but want to see them get more senior time...though that not going to happen soon ..another reason why I want to see a reserve squad..the next best thing to SL standard. To that list add Harvey Whiteley very talented hooker though got injured in 2016 and lost out on been first choice hooker...got the build and tenacity of Shoey with Burrow's footwork ..would like Burrow to have a few one on one sessions with him to bring out best in him.

Having watched young Mazive throughout our scholarship respectfully i disagree mate he had potential but imo Golding is way ahead in every facet as a FB he just needs time to settle into first team SL Rugby which of course isn't helped in a struggling team under a Coaching regime out of date.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But having watched Mazive through his junior days also, there is no way he is fullback standard at this level. And again, also watched Harvey through his junior days to now, and posted last year, a big fan but don't believe he will make it. He wasn't injured last year, he just wouldn't have been up to it. Brady is a better bet in the under 19's.

This in response to RhinoMark as well....the Judah Mazive I know was in U16 squad ,I think in 2014 coached by Burrow...he scored in every match he played in...for some reason he did not continue on into the U19s and got picked up by Wakefield's academy in 2015...up to that point I felt even then he was potentially better than Golding...Wakey then ruined him...so not surprised he not as good..since been with them I agree has not scored as many tries. Im saying if he was back with us..Burrow was his coach again would be a different story.

The same is true for Harvey Whiteley...in U16s was brilliant but when went up..was not the same player I agree..mind Plume had a habit of picking players out of position. Are you sure I thought first part of 2016 he was injured along with a number of others in U19s squad..came back in second half of season but only on the bench. I note though he has been selected so far this season as starting hooker by Moz...so maybe he can recapture his old form that made him appealing. I would still like Burrow to spend time coaching the youngsters at least once a week..he has a positive effect.

I know exactly where i saw Mazive mate that's why i said id seen him throughout our scholarship he wasn't offered an u19 deal iirc.
Wrt Whiteley i agree he was electric in the u16's & i too thought he was injured a lot last year.
Wrt this year i also agree Moz seems to rate him so i wont be writing him off just yet.

A major headache for a coach is a good player at the back end of his career, when do you show him the door. Do you let him go too early or permit him to potentially struggle on. Saints made a good decision regarding long, he wanted a long term contract they declined. Having left saints he did not perform so well. The giants thought hodgson was past it, unfortunately for them he was a success at Warrington.

If cap issues are preventing us strengthening in the halves and in the pack then I'd move on a couple of the more redundant high earners. Hall and Watkins. Decent centre and wing that are of no earthly use with current shortcomings elsewhere. This assumes that talent is available to come in; I'm nowhere near as sold on Widdop as some are. Thinking about it, I'd make an offer for Williams. Wigan are always up for a fee.

In previous years though we've moved on B. Mcdermott Senior Webb Ali Mckenna Bai etc etc & on the Coaching front T.Smith & Bluey Cummins Poching so it's nothing new to GH.
In fact id say it's part of the Blueprint to our sustained success now we are back at the start of that cycle i.e early 2000's where the cull & rebuild began.

Yes, but I'm not so sure GH is that same person he was with the same drive and desire for the club he had circa 2000 as in getting down, dirty and ruthless. Hopefully i'm wrong. Guess we will see soon enough.

I'd say the evidence suggests GH has fallen asleep at the wheel, buying into excuses for last year when he should have done more, at least in the off-season, to make sure it wasn't repeated. The fact that after a mere 4 games he's had to email fans to try to placate them may at least be a sign that he's waking from his slumber.

He may be, he's also shrewd enough to know that the people who are now grumbling (and rightly so IMHO) about lessons not been learned from last year will soon be aiming their ire and questions at him if he doesn't nip it in the bud with an open ended fluff piece.

Who stays / who goes ?

1. Ashton Golding
2. Tom Briscoe
3. Kallum Watkins
4. Joel Moon
5. Ryan Hall - Contracted to 2018
6. Danny McGuire - Contracted to 2017
7. Rob Burrow - Contracted to 2017
8. Keith Galloway
9. Parcell
10. Adam Cuthbertson
11. Jamie Jones-Buchanan
12. Carl Ablett
13. Stevie Ward
14. Liam Sutcliffe
15. Brett Delaney
16. Brad Singleton
17. Mitch Garbutt
18. Jimmy Keinhorst
19. Brett Ferres - Contracted to 2019
20. Anthony Mullally
21. Josh Walters
22. Ash Handley
23. Jack Ormondroyd
24. Jordan Baldwinson
25. Jordan Lilley
26. Cory Aston
27. Cameron Smith
28. Mikolaj Oledzki
29. Josh Jordan-Roberts
30. Sam Hallas

It's hard to say without knowing the player's salaries but this is how I'd go. We need a quality half, line breaking prop and second rower and this will hopefully free up the salary and positions necessary to make this happen. I haven't made a call on Aston as we haven't seen him yet. Ultimately though I do think any major squad clear outs will only be effective if we bring in some fresh faces on the coaching side.

All the ones i've selected to keep would all be subject to the New Regimes call.

This would be my call. I think Watkins needs a fresh start ala Hardaker and the money it would create would be better spent elsewhere.

Backs & Halfbacks:
26. Cory Aston; [2018 - stay, give him the opportunity to develop
2. Tom Briscoe; [2018 - stay
7. Rob Burrow; [2017 - go
1. Ashton Golding; [2018 - stay
5. Ryan Hall; [2018 - stay
22. Ashley Handley; [2017 - stay
25. Jordan Lilley; [2017 - stay
6. Danny McGuire; [2017 - go
4. Joel Moon; [2018 NFT - stay if he wants to, but can go with Keinhorst development
14. Liam Sutcliffe; [2017 - stay, give him chance, should be loose forward
3. Kallum Watkins; [2019 - stay, get the ball to him like Segeyaro and Aiton used to, there is no better on his day.
Forwards - stay

I think we would get more bang for buck by letting Hall go too. Not hard to replace for an acceptable replacement and he is on big money. We need some strong thinking to manage the cap.