Should be a really cool scar on his forehead.

The chicks will love it. Just adds even more to his bad boy image doesn't it. I hope he wears a nice leather jacket.

Hardaker. Not sure when he did it though - he already had a scrum cap on by the time Amor mullered him.

Really? If you start with the extra prop at 13, something Leeds did a lot of last year and either Singleton or Baldwinson is capable of doing, why couldn't you have five props in the 17?

Because when We did it Cuthbertson was the main man who switched, whom incidentally is another prop to add come next week. So therefore looking at six.

watching ablett early on he also appeared injured to me which if correct means we started the game with 3 injured forwards. Perhaps not that much of a shock that saints were so much better at start of game than we were. I thought we would get a heavy beating after 15 mins. Strangely by the end I felt more confident about things overall that at any time this year. The team spirit looked strong and to me appears they are still playing for Mcd. Hope we get some forwards back for next week for the battle of the basement. I'd rather win the cup game if had to choose one. If we go out of the cup the season is just about trying to be in sl next year, which is a really grim prospect in early May. Take all the points about revenue etc. finishing 8th with no chance of 4th does not sound like much of a money maker for play-offs.

Id go with
Hardaker
Handley
Keinhorst/Moon
Watkins
Golding
Sutty
Lilley
Garbutt
Burrow
Galloway
Jjb
Keinhorst/Ferres
Singo

Mullally
Baldwinson
C.Smith
Falloon

Will this be pay on the gate for us?

No. Sell out expected.

More of a money maker than games against Batley, Leigh etc

If we played Leigh at home in middle 8s that would get a good crowd imo, they would bring a fair few with the prospect of promotion. Same as the Bulls who we haven't met for a couple of years. plus we would be playing 3 other current SL teams who drop down, two likely being Hudds and Wakey right now, both games that would draw a crowd.Granted, crowds may be down a bit and we would lose some money but not the doomsday scenario some on here are making out.

Middle 8 fixtures (if they were to become a reality) are included in the season ticket aren't they? Therefore they've already been paid for even if some season-ticketed success bandwagoners discover they can't cope and don't bother attending.

Therefore any loss of revenue will be due to less walk-ups paying at the turnstiles or who purchase tickets beforehand in order to save a couple of quid.

I think the most likely impact of a Middle 8 appearance on revenue would be a reduction in season ticket sales and attendances next season.

Correct, but all it takes is for us to steam roll a few local foes in say the likes of Bradford and Hudds, Wakey or whoever in the middle 8s and finishing on a positive note, a big name signing or two and suddenly things don't appear too bad going into the off season.I'm sure as you well know GH will use his mouth piece Peter Smith at the evening post to emphasise our adversity at the start of the year with SPOTY, Floods,injuries etc... to keep fans on board

also, finishing 7th or 8th taking beatings from the top teams to end the year could also have an effect on ticket sales next season.Its possibly going to be a bit of a leap into the dark really for the club regards fan retention after many years of challenging now, we may see some bandwagoners walk away regardless.

True, also extras like shirt sales, merchandise such as season review DVDs such as the treble one last year would've sold well. Would imagine shirt sales were very high going into the season off the back of 2015. Not seen no charity/Magic shirt announced yet? Perhaps they realise fans won't be as interested in buying an extra shirt when results are so poor and it'll be enough of a struggle to get them to splash cash on tickets from here until seasons end.

In terms of actual games at the end of this year it depends on how the fixtures land. Finish 7th or 8th and have 3 home games (one potentially vs Catalans with zero away support) or 4 home games in the middle 8's (one potentially vs Bradford who'll bring a lot). Plus finish 7th/8th with no chance of top 4 then probably not on Sky much during that period. In the middle 8's then probably the Saturday game on a number of occasions.

Leeds are averaging 15k+? they have <10k season ticket holders - so a third of the crowd is walk up if you think Featherstone, Batley, London are going to bring anything like the crowd Hull, Wigan, Saints etc will I suggest you are wrong

You ignore the corporate sponsorship revenue too - easy to charge top dollar for Wigan, Saints etc not so easy to sell Featherstone, London to professional bodies in Leeds.

And then there is the touchy subject of 2017 and the corporate revenues and ST sales - that could be tough one for Rob Oates if Leeds were in the Championship - only joking

A massive weekend ahead now..

Huddersfield v Leeds
Salford v Hull KR
Widnes v Wakefield

I don't accept your knee-jerking doomsday scenario of financial ruin should Leeds end up in the Middle 8's. Sure, the club might lose some revenue as a result, but SFW? I really don't care. Caddick and Hetherington won't be visiting Food Banks any time soon. Anyhow, the loss of revenue won't be anywhere near as much as your jerking knees are portraying.

Perhaps some fans may find the Middle 8's a more appealing prospect where there's something to play for as opposed to scraping into the Top 8 and having sweet FA to play for throughout Rounds 24 to 30.

You've got way too cosy getting used to watching meaningless SL fixtures.

Jeff you are entitled to your view - I just don't agree with it.

Leeds in the middle 8 will simply be a succession of large victories, that is the reality. Three of the games will be against teams they have already played twice this season - if that is what floats your boat great. The games will be even more meaningless than a place in the top 8 - at least you will get to see the best players in the competition.

I agree about the standard of SL its terrible and has been for a few years - not sure how Leeds being in the middle 8 will help that?

As a opposed to 7 teams they have already played twice (3 times in the case of wigan) in the Super 8s?

But teams that are filled with the best players in the league, teams with significantly better away support - Look at the home crowds for the likes of Featherstone/Batley/London, they make the likes of Wakey and Salford look positively stellar.

I will ask you a question - do you think it would easier to sell a corporate package for a game against Warrington or a game against London? which of these two games would you rather go and watch?

The assumption there is that people who buy corporate packages go to watch the game. They don't. I've been to sporting events on corporate invites, and spending time watching the game is entirely secondary.

Come on, we will likely only have 3 home games and it won't be all against those 3 teams you mention for maximum doomsday effect. Yes if London or Batley are one of the home games then the corporate packages would be a difficult sell but that comes with the territory of a bad season. That said it could easily be Bradford, Huddersfield,Wakey and Leigh at home, all of which would pull a healthy crowd in games where something is at least at stake as William rightly pointed out.

Anyway, as said the biggest downer from middle 8s would be selling season tickets and packages for 2017 and retaining the fair weather brigade.

4 Middle 8 games @ 11k avg. total = 44k
3 Super 8 games @ 15 avg. total = 45k

No real difference and that's just a guess at some average totals as who we'd play is yet to be known.

So really a dip in corporate packages alone which I can't see on its own be that significant a drop in cash. Again you'd be selling for 4 games instead of 3 so even if you get less per game you have an extra game to make up the loss.

That's an extremely optimistic and simple way to look at it.

You are assuming we will finish above the bottom two for starters, otherwise three games, which makes a massive dent in your figures. You are also assuming we would get 11k, which is very optimistic, when likely not to go above 9k.

You have missed out catering, merchandise, also, which is a massive sum on game days for this club.

There is no way you will have change from a £300k-£350k difference come the end by playing in the middle 8's instead. But as others have already alluded to, the biggest issue will be retaining the customers for next year, as lets be honest here there is an awful lot of band wagoners within our ranks. And at the same itme the corporate simply will not sell at the same rate as it currently does for next season should we become cellar dwellers. Then there is the indirect issue of keeping players happy. We are not Wakefield, Hull KR, Widnes, etc, do you really think the players we have will be happy bunch in that comp?

I would suggest "keeping the players happy" should be somewhere near the bottom of the list of priorities, given it's the players who are primarily responsible for the results that determine which comp you're playing in.

And you don't think that is the exact oppossite to what we have built the previous decade of success on?

Some players are not producing, that is clear for all, the primary responsible though is not down to them, but the club and its coaches the problem there. I am sure the players are not inventing injuries.