agreed DHM some good points. what was the worst Saints team? because i can't think of one going back the 30 years i have watched the game and i know their 70s side was good.early 80s?

Actually that's the worst Saints team I've seen. The one we annihilated in 04 (closely followed by Wigan doing the same) was actually not as bad.

Not willing to settle for mediocrity when it can easily be resolved. Obviously your happy with failure.

i see your thinking but they did have the likes of Cunningham,wellens, long and Sculthorpe amongst others back then, class players.All steady eddies accross the park pretty much now.Sums up SL as a whole sadly these days

The noble cover-up phrase of a whiner.

Do you honestly think a change of coach is the answer to all of the issues we've got at the minute?

I see a lot of people on here calling for an Aussie coach, has any of these people been watching the Aussie game this year? I have and it has been the most boring rugby I have seen in years. Yes there have been some close games making it quite intense but the style of rugby is staid and not enjoyable to watch. They may have the measure of SL clubs as in the WCC series this year but their attendances are shrinking year on year, punters are voting with their feet. Would I sacrifice our style of rugby for the Antipodean style? Not a chance!

I've watched quite a bit of NRL this year, and I agree to a large extent with regards to how boring the rugby can be, to an extent saved by the close nature. (And by how much nicer it is to watch a game where the rucks are nice and quick).

Not to say there has not been some good stuff to watch, Anthony Milford was amazing yesterday. The Raiders and Tigers have also been pretty good to watch.

I commented about the number of Aussies we've got in the team being too high earlier. By my reckoning when everyone's fit there'll probably be 6 in our match day squad, far too many for a club like Leeds imo. Especially when only Moon and Cuthbo are top top class. (Delaney and Garbo but are more in the Kylie bracket than The Webb or Ali one).

It's also strange we are relying on them from for forwards given its generally thought of as easier (especially for SL clubs) to produce forwards.

Watching some NRL for the first time in a long, long while this year - partly because I thought the £99 12 month pass on Premier HD was a good deal and partly because SL was dire during the opening few rounds - living in hope rather than expectation that things will improve in that regard.

I don't understand why the two games can't at least have a unified approach to laws and interpretation. I know we're not supposed to simply follow their lead but they do have some good ideas.

If we could get our basic skills up to that of the Aussie teams it would be a start - no coach in the UK - Tony Smith apart seems capable of achieving that. Also the way the Aussies develop talent is light years ahead of anything we do here. It is time for another Graham Murray - someone who is going to leave a positive mark on the club.

"All of the issues" We need a stand off who can make decisions and lead a team. That's it. Mac thought Sutcliffe was the man. He clearly isn't. The coach must pay for such a shocking decision.

That makes about as much sense as playing Sutcliffe at stand off

So our appalling lack of control at the ptb (on defence) will be fixed by a stand off? Or poor defensive reads? Or the fact our offload game has been nullified? How about our wingers struggling with kicks?

I'm not a doom merchant, but these are all issues which have shown themselves at one time or another this season and are not going to be fixed by a stand off.

They'll be solved with a change of coach. Fresh ideas. He's had his time

We'll have to disagree, the players have to take some responsibility for me.

Why do so many seem surprised by what they are seeing? This year was always going to be very tough after winning the treble and losing legendary players.

Add to that the awful injury list we have carried over what has been a tough opening set of fixtures and we are about where I would have expected.

Against saints and cas we have looked better and if players stay fit we are only going to get better.

Changing the coach won't change any of the difficulties this season will inevitably bring. McD has earned the right to be in charge through the transition.

Oh, and those saying he doesn't develop youth I think handley, Golding, lilley, ward, singo, Walters etc.. would disagree. Developing youth is about easing in the very best over time, not just chucking in any old kid in the hope they make it.

A very well thought out post and one that i agree with
I will be happy to see how this season pans out in our transitional year before making judgement regarding Brian Mac's ability to manage our club going forward

For fans that want him out now and for those that have always wanted him out i would say "Be carefull what you wish for"

V good point.
there were a fair few wire fans calling for the end of tony smith last season. Under smith wire and Leeds have both played their best football in at least 40 years and perhaps ever.

One tactic I find very negative and risk averse is the willingness to try and barge over for a try on last tackle. It is prevalent now in NRL apparently because the attacking side fear kicking too long and giving away a 7 tackle set. If you try some form of kick, you may get an opposition knock -on, a rebound and 6 more tackles, a a penalty if opposition end up picking up offside, a goal line drop out or God forbid you may actually score a try. Simply being willing to handover the ball near their line is unambitious and makes for dull viewing here and in NRL.

I thought we were awful against Saints - just they were worse against Cas we were no great shakes I thought the Warrington performance was our best.

On youth development I would not be putting the likes of Walters - who came from RU, Lilley who has yet to show much, same goes for Golding as shining examples of quality youth development.

If you thought we were awful against saints then I'm happy to take that level of awful that gives two points each week.

As for youth, I agree the players mentioned have a long way to go but that wasn't the point. The key reason we haven't developed many top players recently is because the group that consisted of Sinny, mags, burrow etc... have been so good that those coming through couldn't kick them out. Now that has changed and McD is now bringing through the players I mentioned.

I actually think he is steering the ship well overall. Is he doing a perfect job? Of course not, but surely, surely, he has done enough to earn support at this point. And quite frankly if you don't think he does then I wonder what you want.

If that is the standard the top teams are going to put out the sport has some serious issues - win or lose.

We have been crying out for hooker for years we also have been looking for a centre we have had to import wingers, full backs, props because we cannot produce/develop the quality we need

On McDermott it is difficult to know wether the wins were down to him or the quality of player he inherited - I suppose time will tell

The reality is probably a bit of both which is how it should be.

This is where some fans opinions will always differ. I would hate to watch that level of performance every week even if we were winning every week. We, and others, should be looking to push and improve the standard, not fall into line with the lower quality of teams (even if this would give the appearance of a highly competitive division).

As for the rest of your post I mostly agree, Mac does deserve some more time, at the moment the players are not playing to their capabilities.

On youth, while I personally think we have too many Aussies, I do think Mac hasn't done too bad at giving the kids a go, I think Ward and Singo would've come through anyway, but Walters and Keinhorst have really come out of the blue to be decent squad players along with Handley.

He has also stuck with Sutty and to an extent Lilley, two very young halves, now we are struggling people are pointing going "Sutty is not good enough, he's not a half." Now I would bet if Mac had have gone out and signed say a Campese, those same people would be up in arms about Mac not sticking with the youth who showed up so well at times last year.