It's a coaching setup of dreams McNamara and Jimmy Lowes. Quite how Jimmy manages to get a role is unbelievable.

Someone who can pass confidently off their left hand would be a start. But it's the game plan that truly sucks big balls.

I don't think Gale could of done any worse today at least he may have brought a kicking game with him.I thought Farrell had poor game amongst others, and would probably swap him for Westwood next week.England have their work cut out if they cannot speed the ruck up,Roby was the third best hooker on the pitch.

Great hyperbole.

However, how he performs for England (who only get to play together a few times a year) under McNamara versus International sides

Doesn't confirm how he'd perform for Leeds (who play together weekly) under McDermott versus Super League sides.

Whitehead as just one example, looks disappointing at International level but has been one of top 2nd rowers in the competition this year. He's not the only one you could say that about at International level for England.

I think Widdop and Williams are both talents. Their kicking game could improve, but they're both better than they've shown today. I also think Whitehead, Ferres and Hill are the best offloaders in the league (other than Cuthbertson - and now we know why he's not there) and none of them promoted the ball, or put the defence in two minds with that skill once today. So the halves had little space, and the centres had no ball. It was easy for NZ, and it was entirely down to the coaching instructions to bash it up the middle and not the ability of the selected team.

Four drives, then a limited shift, then a mediocre kick. Every time. All Steve McNamara seems to have learnt in the NRL is how to get a team of class players to perform like his Bradford Bulls.

The annoying thing is that we actually *do* have the players to beat NZ (and when they're without Johnson and Foran we should be beating them convincingly, because their reserve halves are barely club standard) but the worst performer associated with the England team is one who gives the orders.

Fundamentally this is my main fear. NZ really were there for the taking, even with our pedestrian one dimensional team....we are in grave danger of missing a wonderful opportunity to win a test series against an awfully medicore, weakened team. There really are no excuses.

Steve McNamara =Stuart Lancaster of Rugby league, both clueless and play a forward in the centres.

They are talented players, that defence was world class. Strong in the middle and the outside backs made some fantastic reads. What they did with the ball was incomprehensible.

Just watched the game as was working. A very dour affair, haven't enjoyed either game so far. Could be a chance lost, but ultimate a pointless series I cannot get particularly excited about

Just wasted an afternoon at the Olympic Stadium watching the most ordinary game of RL I've seen for years. Massive showcase, big opportunity to demonstrate why so many of us fans call our game the 'Greatest Game' and we turn in a one dimensional performance of such mind numbing ordinariness that I ended up wondering if Mc Namara was in the pay of the RFU!

I mean all that scooting from dummy half, inside passes to on coming props, a truly awful kicking game, one out football and middle channel ultra dullness! Gee whizz what rubbish - two very ordinary sides! Widdop and Williams at half back?! I mean really!! Hardaker brought nothing to the attack, Bateman is not an international class centre in anyones reckoning.

I'd rather we got tonked throwing the ball about and having a go at playing some expansive/entertaining stuff. What we got was plop!

Opportunity missed on many levels

agree with the above, so many people in attendance today who were non diehard league fans, we had a chance to showcase our sport, instead what was on offer was the most turgid lacklustre game of league i have witnessed in many year along with a dire atmosphere,did we create any line breaks? off loading? Graham tried his heart out as always but where was the imagination and spark, awful game

Agree with that.
The kicking game in particular is annoying because if you're going to play such as simple a gameplan as McNamara is then your kicking is vital. It was rubbish. Did we even put 1 decent high bomb up?

So if he moved to Leeds, he'd suddenly develop a good long kicking game?

If he moved to Leeds, he'd suddenly start being able to pass to the right accurately? He'd become a dominant voice in the side and a competent organiser?

These are skills you've either got or you haven't. The level of the opposition is irrelevant to whether you can do these things, and on the evidence of his performances in an England shirt Widdop can't.

Like I said, he's decent when he's surrounded by world class players. When the responsibility is put on him to be the main man, his deficiencies are exposed.

That you can't see any difference in being able to be a dominant voice and organiser in a side that comes together for one month a year and a side that would play together week in week out in extremely alarming.

No what is really alarming is that you won't acknowledge or can't see that Widdop hasn't got the basic skill set at the correct level to be a dominant half back in any elite league arena.

If he can't be an organiser in a side desperate for someone to fill that role given the time span of the camp - how is he ever going to be the organiser of a team that has already established a method of playing and inbuilt hierarchy?

Williams and Bateman should both be dropped, but as McNamara is using this as a warm up for the World Cup, and wants to blood young players, I think he'll stick with the same team. Luke Gale deserves a shot (although McGuire should be at 7 anyway) and God only knows what Shenton and Cudjoe must be thinking. World's best winger, and they stick a half decent second row as his centre. McNamara out!

Williams looked like the speed of the game was to fast for him. So many times he got the ball, looked to pass but then held on and got clobbered. I lost count. As the senior half back widdop was poor. Offered nothing.

Shame that the game was so poor. The crowd was good with so many new people I can't help but thinking that they won't bother next time.

This is totally the kind of guff we have had to read about Sinfield for well over 10 years from other clubs fans.

Exactly ^^

I agree with you. However, i watch very little NRL these days and have not seen anything of Widdop TBH. Is he a totally different player for St George than the one we get to see for England? because imo he has had a fair crack of it the last few years while others have taken stick and has rarely if ever performed above average in an England shirt.He was pretty woeful yesterday, however not alone. He does need to start playing better than that as senior half back now or people are rightly going to criticise, comes with the territory.

He has hardly played in the halfs for England up until now. Last week on winning there were a lot of plaudits, including those critisizing now. Difference is we lost this week.

All we ever hear about on these boards is how good the NRL is and how only the best players can play in that league. This lad has been standing out for a few years now in that comp, and now it is only because of the players around him.

Many players play to their best because of the players around them. There have been quite a few at Leeds over last decade who have benefited from that. The fact people are talking about McGuire is laughable, as he can't organise a pish up in a brewery. The key is picking the right attributes to compliment others, just Like Leeds have done. Yesterday said more about the England team, where there were many poor performances, than it said about Widdop.

A post from back in July when people were calling for us to sign Widdop - I've always maintained he's an average Joe - some people are fooled into thinking he's great because he plays in the NRL - those people clearly don't watch him often... He has the odd good game, but is generally average to anonymous.... Certainly isn't a leading/organising half - his game management is pretty much non-existent, he's just a running threat....

He has 18 caps for England. A few from the bench fair enough,but he is also 26 now and in his prime so is no rookie. Do tell me about a game he has played above average in, because i can't think of one and that includes last week, imo. I agree with what you say regards benefiting from players around him, Obviously Widdop has benefited more than most when he played for the Storm. Like i say, he needs to show more than he has or he will be criticised with the reputation he brings and now as the senior half.

Well, like i said i don't watch him in the NRL, but what i have seen for England in the past and in this series so far i wouldn't want to see us spending the big bucks on him.

Most of the time when England halves have been poor is because the pack has been on the back foot.That was not the case yesterday. England's pack did a good job and got us going forward. Our halves had no ability to get the ball to our danger players. Having a second row at centre didn't help either