Hello i'm looking for my father, his name is David. He is around 6ft 4in and black. He spend most of his life on this website so if you find him please contact me

maybe.Sam strikes me as a guy who enjoys being the main man though.In RL the day he left lifting the NRL title and clive churchill medal he was just that.In RU its now clear he is not going to cut it at centre long term at international level.If he stays and learns his trade as flanker it could be 1-2 years before he forces his way back into the England fold and even then, it will take some going to become one of the very best in that position over that period so no certainties.These are his prime years too,meanwhile, he still has the get out of slotting right back into the game he left not 1 year ago and become a main man again.Guess we will know soon but if he intends to stick it out why not come out and quash these growing rumours?

But IMO Burgess has all that is required to make it as a back rower and looking at the opposition lets not pretend England are blessed with world class forwards because they are not. He has the physique and fitness to cover the ground in defence and attack it is not as though we have flankers that can turn the ball over as it is or not give penalties away. Ok he has to learn to either lift or be lifted in the lineout... not really rocket science is it. So I think he could well be back in contention within a year and this time he would be selected on merit.

Well I hope the rumours prove to be true and we see him at Headingley next season

There are enough bits of this puzzle to outline 2 very different pictures. One where he stays in RU and one where he comes back to RL. Convincing scenarios have been put together for both options, but we don't know what his plans are and we're just going to have to wait this one out.

After surveying all the evidence and seperating the fact from the fiction I've developed a hypothesis, that Burgess will either stay in RU or return to league.

What about doing a Jarryd Hayne, are we definitely ruling that option out?

Whatever the eventual outcome regarding where Sam plays either his Rugger or Rugby League and in which hemisphere?
The Rhinos have certainly had great free worldwide publicity and as only Gary H knows whether we were ever in for him or not, he will certainly be glad of the Rhinos name being dropped into articles worldwide

Sam would be a great signing tho

wtf

Does your Dad know Sam Burgess?

I have absolutely no inside info, but I'm guessing he'll at least see out his contract at Bath. The only reason I think that is because Burgess has a huge amount of self confidence and I find it hard to believe his ego would allow him to walk away as a 'failure' at RU. In addition, if he wants to go back to Souths with huge fanfare (as SBW did when he joined the Roosters) he needs to be away a bit longer IMO.

The idea that he's likely to be back in the England RU side any time soon is ridiculous. Never mind the fact that he need to pick up the skills he needs and simply doesn't have yet, the England coach going forward is not going to be Lancaster, and Farrell will be gone too. Any other coach will have seen how Lancaster has been derided for picking Burgess, and will need to be absolutely convinced he's the best player in his position to pick him. I'd say the chances of him getting another game in the forwards within a year are minimal.

I think the 2nd paragraph is exactly why he will leave. I don't think he went there just to play club rugby and I think 2 years is a more likely gap for his international exile having to learn that position. Like you said, it's likely to be a new coaching team and they won't be in a rush to include after the backlash the current regime got for picking him.

Also still think England were behind signing him regardless of it allegedly all being on Bath and they'll be happy to let him leave as they won't have any interest in picking him now as shown by him being dumped out the team to play Uruguay when elimination had been confirmed.

The media and public will demand heads to roll for the World Cup disaster and Lancaster, Farrell and Burgess are the most likely candidates to appease the mob baying for blood.

Even though they're struggling with a few injuries at Bath, Mike Ford earlier today confirmed that Burgess will be "rested" again this weekend.

He went for the money.
Not good PR for himself or RU to say that but at the end of the day the guy will be out to maximise his income which personally I have no problem with.
He won't be coming back soon to any RL team as I would be amazed if his contract didn't have something like spreading his signing on fee fee over a few years rather than one lump sum.
He's been paid by the piper and he will have dance to his tune unless he wants to forgo some considerable future cash which is probably beyond all RL to recompense him if he did return early.

I knew I hadn't gone totally mental last December viewtopic.php?f=17&t=575367

I knew I hadn't gone totally mental last December viewtopic.php?f=17&t=575367

Burgess might enjoy still getting paid, but will the piper want to keep paying someone big money that hasn't worked out and is one of the key persons of blame for the WC disaster in the media and fans eyes?

I don't think money was the main reason. Big money would have flowed if England won the WC with him in the team. As it is his base salary at Bath is probably not a lot more than at Souths, and the cap is due to rise in the NRL.

Add to that he was already a star in Sydney and the 'clan Burgess' thing was a licence to print money outside of the game (he was a regular on the Footy Show in 2013 and seemed to love it). Probably the biggest loser financially in all this is Luke, who once Sam left Souths has been reduced to jobbing reserve grader.

m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34611419 Even people in the game estimate Bath and Saracens could be around £2m over the cap, but "confidentially agreements" have been reached with clubs who went over the cap. Also I don't see it as solely being Burgess' decision if he stays in RU. Do RU want to keep him? He's obviously not worked out and the WC a disaster with him as the poster boy for it going wrong. Are you going to keep him as an expensive experiment in the back row? Some on here might underestimate how difficult it'll be for him to become a forward to a good level but doesn't mean those in RU do. Just look at all those who have gone to RU from RL over the years (for all countries)......how many guys went there and played in the forwards? Their's a reason it's pretty much always been backs.

m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34611419 Even people in the game estimate Bath and Saracens could be around £2m over the cap, but "confidentially agreements" have been reached with clubs who went over the cap. Also I don't see it as solely being Burgess' decision if he stays in RU. Do RU want to keep him? He's obviously not worked out and the WC a disaster with him as the poster boy for it going wrong. Are you going to keep him as an expensive experiment in the back row? Some on here might underestimate how difficult it'll be for him to become a forward to a good level but doesn't mean those in RU do. Just look at all those who have gone to RU from RL over the years (for all countries)......how many guys went there and played in the forwards? Their's a reason it's pretty much always been backs.

One of the main reasons for that is the prop, second row and hooker positions are so specialised in union that you need a good few years behind you playing that position to do it effectively, and even be of certain body type that became extinct in RL back in the early 1900's.

Flanker and Number 8 have more autonomy that those positions above and will still take time to master, but are possible for a league player if they move over young enough. I think if Burgess sticks at 6 or 7 (and if he stays in RU), in a couple of years he'll be a dead cert for England in the flankers.

The only RL forward that I can recall making a success of RU in the forwards is Brad Thorne & I think he'd played RU at a high level before coming to RL.
In reverse I could see David Pocock the current Aussie no 8 making it in the NRL.

For those questioning 'why would he come back to RL now' - maybe he's just bored.... We all start playing sport because we enjoy it - as an all action RL player who thrived on such a big workload and the general combative and up tempo nature of RL, he must be struggling to enjoy a game in which he maybe has 10 involvements at a maximum. I know from my own experience as an RL player who's played a fair few RU games, it can be boring as hell - there's just not enough work to do...

So maybe, he's realised that wasting a few years of his 'prime' in Union, a sport he won't enjoy as much, isn't worth the extra money.

It remains to be seen. One thing is for sure, they only thing bigger than his wallet at the moment is his ego - Sam likes to be the main man, the star of the show and wants to be adored by all - clearly he ain't gonna be that in Union without a lot of time and effort - and there's no guarantee he ever will be that in Union, particularly when there are so many from within the Union fraternity who would prefer he fails. So does he want to risk the next few years in a game he doesn't enjoy as much (but earning more as he tries), or does he want to come home to RL where he is already a star, will be the main man again, and will still earn a fair old coin - he's certainly not going to be short of cash regardless of here he ends up.

I do not believe the fans blame Burgess for England's woes at all as the criticism came from a narrow section of former players and hacks who were against his selection in the first place. Some of the outrageous comments from these same hacks and chums of other players got well and truly roasted on social media. He is well liked by the Bath fans and you could sense the positive reaction from the crowd every time he got the ball.

He has the skill set to make it as a back row forward and the financial rewards are huge in European Union. I just get the feeling he is not a quitter and will have a determination to prove certain people wrong but he will know that he will only get selected for England on form next time.

Ford has said that because Burgess was away so long with the England camp as a centre he has not had the off season time to learn and practice the line out jumping/lifting skills. So I guess that is what he is doing now.

Best way to get Burgess learning those skills is to get him out on loan somewhere in the second tier of the English game, away from the spotlight.

If Bath could get him a few games at somewhere like Bristol or Cornish Pirates, or even a step down into the third tier with Plymouth Albion, he'll be able to learn the position without Bath suffering if he makes any mistakes while doing so.

Maybe Yorkshire Carnegie should stick in a cheeky loan bid for a couple of months?

Ha, that would be interesting

The NRL cap is 6.8 million AUD for 2016 and will increase to 7 million AUD in 2017. This is about £3.25 million in real money.

The Premiership basic cap in 2016/7 is £6.5 million plus 2 marquee players nominated to be excluded from the cap plus other credits for academy players etc. This is double the NRL cap + the marquee payments so even if you allow for Union having bigger squads than League it still allows for significantly higher earnings before the very lucrative International fees which are reported to have increased to £15,000 per Test match. In addition there are win bonuses eg had England won the World Cup the 31 man squad would have shared a £5 million bonus (£161k each)

While in France the cap is £8.6 million which excludes players that earn £43,000 or less! and Dan Carter is on a 3 year contract at £1.3 million for each season. Therefore there is are very big financial incentives offered by Union plus big off field sponsorship deals and star status.