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| Quote ="rhinoms"There seems to be a lot of assumption that Watkins will want to leave yet he's already signed a long term deal also JC Burgess hasn't been the best RL player in the World or even in the top 3 for at LEAST 12 MONTHS!'"
Any interest in Watkins is surely for the next world cup. That is four years away. So I agree with you, what benefit would Watkins get in leaving Leeds any time sooner than 12 months before the next world cup? He can still do three years here with the potential for success, before then moving on to run down his career in the other code whilst getting to experience their premier competition.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"As I said it is quite likely that Watkins will be poached at some stage anyway so to turn up a chance to sign big Sam would be a big mistake. That said it is pure speculation and I doubt we could afford the transfer fee anyway.'"
It is speculation, as is the notion that Watkins will choose to go elsewhere. To me, he comes across as a confidence player. I'm really not sure that the attention that a high profile move to either the NRL or to union would generate would be something he'd relish. Again, only speculation though.
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| Quote ="Clearwing"It is speculation, as is the notion that Watkins will choose to go elsewhere. To me, he comes across as a confidence player. I'm really not sure that the attention that a high profile move to either the NRL or to union would generate would be something he'd relish. Again, only speculation though.'"
Of course it is all speculation but after our treble and with the team in transition Watkins is bound to be tempted.
What is clear is he would earn several times more each year in Union and would have the chance to learn the game and earn his England spot before the next world Cup. He would have less tackling to do in Union which would prolong his career at the top and should win his international place on merit within a year and so get to travel the world with the England team.
I would be very surprised if the swop deal was for Burgess and more likely for Eastmond - centre for centre/standoff.
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| Eastmond would be 'No' from me - regardless of the deal really. He's been away from RL for too long and at a key development stage of his career - he was already a biscuit bones at Saints (plus a questionable attitude) and IMO will now have irrecoverable talents after his RU stint.... If he'd stayed in RL and worked on his game, he could have been a great playmaker, but that ship has sailed in my view - wasted in RU with no guarantee of getting back to being a top RL player.
The money he would command would most definitely be better spent elsewhere.
As for Watkins, I'd not swap him for any RU player - including Burgess or SBW.... Whilst both those players would be immense - they'd both be gone after 12 or 24 months, and are in positions where we can live without them - Watkins is pretty much irreplaceable at the moment and I feel still has a lot of unrealised potential in his game.... With a little more involvement and hunger for the ball, plus a game plan to exploit his talent, he could become the best centre in the world. Plus, from what I've seen and heard, he's a bit of a home bird, he's got a young family and is settled in Leeds (similar to Ryan Hall), so there's a good chance he would remain loyal to the club long term. And when I think about it, I'm not sure there are many RL players out there that I'd swap for Watkins... There might be some who can bring more immediately to the team (Thurston, DCE, Smith, Cronk), but those type of signings are not realistic and would be short term - Watkins could potentially be around for many many years.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"Of course it is all speculation but after our treble and with the team in transition Watkins is bound to be tempted.
What is clear is he would earn several times more each year in Union and would have the chance to learn the game and earn his England spot before the next world Cup. He would have less tackling to do in Union which would prolong his career at the top and should win his international place on merit within a year and so get to travel the world with the England team.
I would be very surprised if the swop deal was for Burgess and more likely for Eastmond - centre for centre/standoff.'"
Very true, and you could understand it if Watkins indeed does have that point view on things either now or in the near future. He has 5 years left in his prime and he needs to maximise his potential and earn some big bucks while he can, I wouldn't hold anything against him personally, He has achieved everything with us now and cemented his place as SL great already imo. I just can't see Eastmond being the kind of player that suits Leeds or GH and the current organisation at Headingley though. He seems to me to be a bit of a Rugby diva and i can't imagine he would fall into line with things work and have worked well for us in the past decade and more. It would be very surprising to me if GH would see him as a good fit for the club but we'll see.
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| Temperament-wise I don't rate Eastmond. Not that long ago he was widely reported as having threatened to walk out after being subbed in a game at Harlequins. Ability-wise, I'd take him over Brierley any day of the week. However, I really don't envisage any kind of swap deal involving players with profiles as high as him, Watkins and Burgess have.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Any interest in Watkins is surely for the next world cup. That is four years away. So I agree with you, what benefit would Watkins get in leaving Leeds any time sooner than 12 months before the next world cup? He can still do three years here with the potential for success, before then moving on to run down his career in the other code whilst getting to experience their premier competition.'"
After seeing what happened with Sam Burgess i'd say any player wanting to move to RU for a World Cup chance should give themselves much more time than 12 months.
You wouldn't get in the squad in time for the 6 Nations which would leave you maybe one or two friendlies just before the World Cup to gain international experience. Any potential move to RU should be done at least two years before a World Cup, possibly even 3.
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| Everyone who goes to RU thinks they are gonna be the next Jason Robinson, but he was the exception not the rule. Most of the time they end up crawling back less fit and skillful than they left and become poorer RL players. They rarely seem to become a success.
Yeah yeah I know, the money.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"Everyone who goes to RU thinks they are gonna be the next Jason Robinson, but he was the exception not the rule. Most of the time they end up crawling back less fit and skillful than they left and become poorer RL players. They rarely seem to become a success.
Yeah yeah I know, the money.'"
No, no, no.... It's nothing to do with the money.... It's the challenge... A bigger spectacle.... The higher profile... A 'childhood ambition'..... Everything except the money.....
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| Quote ="Superted"No, no, no.... It's nothing to do with the money.... It's the challenge... A bigger spectacle.... The higher profile... A 'childhood ambition'..... Everything except the money.....'"
We all know what it is. To Dance on Ice or Strictly Dance or Captain a Game Show Panel.
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| Maybe they'd rather be playing in front of 70,000 people more than once (or twice if you're lucky) per year?
Maybe they'd rather have the chance, if they really make it, to go on a proper British Lions tour?
All while making more money than they could have made by staying in RL.
Yeah, no idea why any young man with a time-limited career would even consider something like that.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Maybe they'd rather be playing in front of 70,000 people more than once (or twice if you're lucky) per year?
Maybe they'd rather have the chance, if they really make it, to go on a proper British Lions tour?
All while making more money than they could have made by staying in RL.
Yeah, no idea why any young man with a time-limited career would even consider something like that.'"
I think you are spot on Andy, these guys have 5-15 years of top earning potential with which to secure their future, if t'other code can offer more money, some will be tempted. It was the same the other way around for long enough before RU went officially professional.
That and the chance to play for Northern Hemisphere, World Cup whipping boy rabble
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Maybe they'd rather be playing in front of 70,000 people more than once (or twice if you're lucky) per year?
Maybe they'd rather have the chance, if they really make it, to go on a proper British Lions tour?
All while making more money than they could have made by staying in RL.
Yeah, no idea why any young man with a time-limited career would even consider something like that.'"
Nope, me neither.... Life's too short to waste time playing a sport that isn't as enjoyable for the sake of a couple of highlight events.... RL has plenty of highlight opportunities and still earn fantastic coin if you're at the Burgess level of the game..... Just my opinion of course - I'd rather enjoy more moments consistently throughout my life than just have a couple of highlights....
Burgess to RU is about money and ego - both of which he already has plenty of....
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| I think if players are going to go to RU then they really should've had an existing interest in it. Sinfield has said before how he's wanted to try it for a while so you imagine he follows it and knows the jist of what's going on. Some guys who have made the move you wonder just how much (if any) RU they've actually ever watched before making the move. Didn't Sam Tomkins say something along the lines of he's never really watched a game of RU before he made his Barbarians appearance a few years back.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Maybe they'd rather be playing in front of 70,000 people more than once (or twice if you're lucky) per year?
Maybe they'd rather have the chance, if they really make it, to go on a proper British Lions tour?
All while making more money than they could have made by staying in RL.
Yeah, no idea why any young man with a time-limited career would even consider something like that.'"
Yeah, that's what they think. That they'll become a sporting icon playing in front of 70k.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Maybe they'd rather be playing in front of 70,000 people more than once (or twice if you're lucky) per year?
Maybe they'd rather have the chance, if they really make it, to go on a proper British Lions tour?
All while making more money than they could have made by staying in RL.
Yeah, no idea why any young man with a time-limited career would even consider something like that.'"
If that's what they want, then good luck to them.
Union and League are like Chalk and Cheese. But Chalk doesn't taste as nice as Cheese.
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| Quote ="Middleton_Loiner"If that's what they want, then good luck to them.
Union and League are like Chalk and Cheese. But Chalk doesn't taste as nice as Cheese.'"
The chalk may not taste very nice, but it gives you a paid off mortgage with disposable income to invest and grow for financial freedom.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Maybe they'd rather be playing in front of 70,000 people more than once (or twice if you're lucky) per year?
Maybe they'd rather have the chance, if they really make it, to go on a proper British Lions tour?
All while making more money than they could have made by staying in RL.
Yeah, no idea why any young man with a time-limited career would even consider something like that.'"
Correct. Why should a professional player that has won everything in our game not seek a better opportunity and a new challenge which will secure his financial future in a big way. He will earn at least double his basic and should double that again with off field deals.
In addition someone with Watkins skills will almost certainly make it in to the English squad where he will get the chance to star on the big stage around the world and hit the earnings jackpot and line up a second career after he retires.
To suggest that he is somehow a traitor or shouldn't take the chance if offered is small minded and a bit hypocritical when you consider how League used the cheque book to attract so many Union stars that enriched our game so much.
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| Quote ="FlexWheeler"The chalk may not taste very nice, but it gives you a paid off mortgage with disposable income to invest and grow for financial freedom.'"
If it works out well. What about the cases of Chev Walker and Lee Smith. Come back a year or less later, your stock having dropped. Picked up in one case by HKR never to be the player or expect the wages you could had you stayed.
For the short period they were in RU, do you think those two players over the next 5-6 years made less money than if they'd have stayed at Leeds, carried on being a part of our successes and rewarded by the club.
I'd suggest both have made less money in their careers because of a short stay in RU derailing their careers.
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| Where would Watkins play in union? Outside centre would be the obvious choice, but Bath, and England already have Joseph who is similar in style to Watkins. Like Burgess, it would be a waste of talent.
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| Quote ="ThePrinter"If it works out well. What about the cases of Chev Walker and Lee Smith. Come back a year or less later, your stock having dropped. Picked up in one case by HKR never to be the player or expect the wages you could had you stayed.
For the short period they were in RU, do you think those two players over the next 5-6 years made less money duthan if they'd have stayed at Leeds, carried on being a part of our successes and rewarded by the club.
I'd suggest both have made less money in their careers because of a short stay in RU derailing their careers.'"
But neither of these players were good enough so not relevant to the current discussion. Watkins is a totally different proposition. Only the very best will make the transition
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"Where would Watkins play in union? Outside centre would be the obvious choice, but Bath, and England already have Joseph who is similar in style to Watkins. Like Burgess, it would be a waste of talent.'"
He could start on the wing but could play in either centre positions. But top Union clubs have bigger squads and rotate
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"But neither of these players were good enough so not relevant to the current discussion. Watkins is a totally different proposition. Only the very best will make the transition'"
How good he is in RL is not a given on how he'll succeed in RU. It's like the players who have came over from the NRL, their's been good players who have failed in Super League....their's been unknown guys who have been successful. You have no idea how Watkins would settle and enjoy and adapt to RU.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"But neither of these players were good enough so not relevant to the current discussion. Watkins is a totally different proposition. Only the very best will make the transition'"
Both were internationals and Chev, in particular was a very prodigious league talent, bursting on the scene in a bigger way than Watkins, though without his natural talent. You're doing Chev a real dis-service. I think he is a very salutary lesson for how it can ruin your career if you do not settle and make the transition.
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| Could be a Chev Walker or Lee Smith, but equally could be an Israel Folau or Jason Robinson.
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