Looking at the teams they had to play to win the trophy they were never given a hard route to the final

2009 (SL pos)
York
Fev
Hull KR (4)
Wigan (6)
Hudds (3)

2010
Fev
Hudds (5)
Bradford (10)
Catalans (14)
Leeds (4)

2012
Keighley
Bradford (9)
Catalans (4)
Hudds (7)
Leeds (5)

Leeds are the only team with any recent cup pedigree that they faced.

Cup wins are good and certainly better than a trophy-less season, but they are not the mark of a top team.

So in 2012, they beat four of the best other 8 sides in SL to win the trophy?

I'd say that's a pretty good Cup run, about as difficult as you're going to get given other top teams are likely to draw each other.

Likewise 2009, with three of the other top six sides in the competition.

Meh in 2012 against Hudds in the semi. Hudds went in having lost 7 of their last 8 league games since Brown announced his departure at the end of the year and they were abysmal at that point in time. Bradford at home, you'd fancy any of the big 4 to win that comfortably.

They beat Wigan in 2009, but that was the Brian Noble Wigan. Not the Maguire/Wane Wigan, big difference.

I saw him at Slam Dunk music festival in Leeds yesterday, which might provide further ammunition to some, depending on your views of him. Either that, or he has a Yorkshire-based double who is also sporting a year-round tan...

..and yet on the previous page there is one of your usual long winded posts that is purely dedicated to whether Smith is a good coach or not that doesn't deal with the original question.

Threads drift, often due to your contribution.

Deal with it.

Really? Show us what post I made originally before you chipped in with your defence of Smith that wasn't me talking about squad building/make-up issues regarding Smirh?

What exactly was I defending Smith against? I made a post lauding his abilities as a coach. You responded with the post below. Therefore you were as guilty as I of thread drift. You then waffle on complaining about thread drift.

Why don't you quote my first post of the thread? You know the one that was actually about the issue being discussed about squad development and what not? The one you could only reply to with a "......but, but, but......look at his trophies, he's great"

Then I offered the reply you just posted above in response to you stubborn refusal to comment on the issue being discussed. It's noted that after several post you've yet to be able to offer any support to Smith in terms of squad development even though that's the topic we were trying to discuss until you tried derailing with "but he's won X amount of titles"

I went on thread drift. So did you.

I'll quote what I won't and post what I want. You don't have to reply but I certainly don't have to stick to whatever topic or content you want to discuss.

In terms of squad development Smith has developed several squads over the years that have gone on to win trophies. That's an important development.

I think it’s hard to compare the Smith era at Leeds with that at Wire since Smith inherited a once in a generation group of young players at Leeds in the likes of Sinfield/McGuire/Burrow etc. The squad at Warrington wasn’t at the same level when he arrived there and it takes years for a youth system to bear fruit – even then getting 6 or 7 top players through in one go is extremely rare.

He’s had to work with existing players at Warrington and buy others. That’s always going to have mixed results. Considering his success in the cup and generally making Warrington much better than under Cullen he’s done a good job.

Whilst I agree in general, despite beating Leeds twice, I think they have underperformed in their other games where they have 6 wins and 7 losses and their +66 points difference is boosted by an 80-0 win against Wakefield.

Warrington are fifth, with three fewer wins than Leeds. When the top eight format starts Leeds will be playing them again and perhaps in the playoffs and or the cup.

I'm more worried about Smith's game plan against us this year than I am his other inconsistent results. They are still likely to have a big say in where the silver wear goes.,

in 4 years McDermott has won two grand finals and a challenge cup is he the better coach?

Or did he step into a group of players with plenty of talent and a winning mentality installed by previous coaches? Something Smith certainly didn't inherit at Warrington.

I have not always been happy with smith or McDermott with chunks of performances. Have we been greater than the sum of our parts in winning or underperformed too often and lacked style.

What is fact is that smith with a mainly young side in 2004 won the hub cap with style and the grand final.

Powell MAY have done it but SMITH did.

After the 80s and early 90s cannot be denied with differing ways Graham Murray (R.i.p) and Smith brought something extra to the table.

Slight thread drift whoever had the Hetherington out banner?

Smith is without doubt the best coach Leeds has had in the SL era - I was no big fan of his but you cannot deny his ability and his impact at Leeds. He create a belief that didn't exist before he arrived.

You can say all you want about Warrington not winning a GF but they have come pretty close - save a cannonball of Ratchford they probably would have beaten Wigan - that is a testament to his skill. In the last two years they have got closer to winning the GF than Leeds!!

Less said about the two CC finals between Leeds and Warrington under Smith the better. Save some on here the embarrassment of trying to defend the indefensible. Completely out played, out skilled and most of all out coached.

Yet if we mention when Leeds have injuries you label it making excuses, priceless.



Let's give them a trophy for coming close then






How well did he fair against us in the 2011 playoffs, or the 2012 GF, or the 2014 CC semi? 3-1 to McDermott in knockout games against him.

You are very selective in what you quote what is Smith's record against Leeds in finals? What is Smith's record against Leeds in knock out games? We can all make the stats say what we want. More importantly what is his record this season i.e. the present?

I think some on here are forgetting that "Tony Smith is magic" as I recall, on account of the fact that "he wears a magic hat". How soon some forget

Why are people on here so obsessed with a coach who left us over 5 years ago?
We enjoyed his time with us, he left.
Get over it.
Get behind our current back room staff.

Says the guy conveniently ignoring the GF and last year's CC below





As for this year's record, as it stands it's meaningless. Something you've pointed out yourself on other threads. Leeds are top of the the league, we're both still in the cup with the play offs to come. Wire might not even make the top 4 at this rate. Leeds will.

So remind us how many trophies Smith has won? How many has McDermott won?

Leeds have beaten Smith in 3 knock out games during his time at Warrington and he has beaten Leeds in two - two finals to one.

More meaningful than historic data would you not agree!!

Time will tell whether Leeds make the top 4 far from nailed on especially with fixtures after the split.

Would you like a charity bet Warrington will not make the top 4 you seem very confident?

Perosnally I think the comparisons are redundant really.

The coaches who have come in have been the right man for the job at the time.

Smith turned the clubs mentatilty around, and turned them into winners.

McClennan kept them motivated to keep doing it and instilled a hunger to keep winning

McDermott has been able to manage the transition, along with a more competitive league, and still win trophies.

All are top coaches but in different ways

I make it Smith has won 8 trophies in 10 seasons at a top club. (0.8 trophies per season)
4 trophies in 4 seasons at Leeds (04-07)
1 League Leaders
2 Grand Final wins
1 World Club Challenge

4 trophies in 6 seasons at Warrington (09-14)
1 League Leaders
3 Challenge Cups

Brian McDermott has won 4 trophies in 4 seasons at a top club (1 trophy per season)
2 Grand Finals
1 Challenge Cup
1 World Club Challenge

Brian McClennan has won 4 trophies in 3 seasons (1.3 trophies per season)
2 Grand Finals
1 League Leaders
1 World Club Challenge


Now I happen to think Tony Smith is the best coach out of those 3 with McDermott in 2nd place, but just going off trophies is a bit too simplistic.

As The Eagle has said they all came in and did the job they needed to and did it very well in my opinion. In which case perhaps a lot of praise has to be directed toward the man who hired the right people for the right job?

Please see your posts following a couple of dodgy performances and subsequent backtracking following a couple of good performances on the McDermott out thread as I can't be bothered.



I'm not sure where you're getting that from, I said Wire *MIGHT NOT* make the top 4. As it stands they're 5th best team in the country, your earlier posts in this thread back that up don't they? Or are you going to backtrack and move the goal posts again?

I'll be very happy to take a charity bet on Leeds making the top 4 though, since that's the point i'm clearly very confident of happening.