Regarding the 'obligation' on getting tops too, whether or not you actually like them. I have been there and done it. Generally I got them regardless of whether I actually liked them when I was younger - I only didn't get the tops each year if I totally detested them. Generally that rule still applies - I got the 2013 rhinos home top as it was my first year going properly but did not get the pink away one as was not mad keen on it. Last year I got both as I liked them both - I was representing the Rhinos at the NFL game in the away top yesterday - but anytime you are paying good money for something you don't actually like or particularly want you have to ask yourself if you are doing the right thing.

Ok, with some things like a boiler repair, a washing machine or car insurance you don't really have a choice but with a £50 item of clothing that within a year will no longer be 'current' or 'in fashion' you do. With my football tops I went from buying every single one in a ten year period to only getting the home tops, to then only getting the shirts I like to not getting any at all - though this is currently a more political decision on my part.

Instead I have stocked up on a couple of 'retro' shirts from like 15-20 years ago that are already so far out of date so can't then particularly go 'old' after a season after the current ones will.

A reoccurring theme with the guys who say they're questioning/won't buy a ST anymore is that nearly all point out that they've been attending since the 70's/80's and that their own personal group who they would attend with has decreased with friends and family deciding not to attend for several reasons.

I have a friend who only attended her first match two years ago. The several friends she attends with couldn't wait to buy ST for next year and still find the experience of going enjoyable. I have another who attended in the early 00's but hadn't attended a match for around 8 years until this year and they wanted to get back into going so have bought a ST for next year also.

Does strike me that whilst the team has played some frustrating rugby on the pitch the last few years, a decent chunk of the reason why people don't want attend anymore is one born out of just getting old and the repartition of going (just like a long marriage) has lost its spark. Granted a solution to that is for the games to be exciting you more but I dare say if you've been following for so long then there's been quite a few seasons which will have failed to impress. I think when you see reasons such as the shirt design and the price of the Boxing Day friendly been added to the weight of the reasons not to buy a ST I think it shows a mindset where the person has started to look and nitpick for reasons not to go, and in that instance you'd have to say that whilst the team may not be at its strongest at present it also (without trying to offend anyone) shows IMO just a clear cut sign of just getting old and bored.

The friends I mentioned earlier who are buying ST next year, both in their 20's. Some of you on here who started watching in the 80's, whilst it wasn't the best period for Leeds you still talk of it fondly in many ways and the enjoyment of attending. However I bet there was guys back then who had attended for 20/30 years previously and witness some success who started to stop going. It's transition, just because something once meant more or held your interest more doesn't mean it'll have that hold on you forever.

If you didn't care you wouldn't make the effort to comment. So thanks for that.

That's me alright. First game 1978. I think your point is very valid.

I'd made a similar point on another thread somewhere - a lot of people who have said they are not renewing have commented how they used to have a group of people they went with and that their group of people has decreased. This suggests part of going is not the rugby per se - it is the whole thing of routine of a Friday night / Sun afternoon spent meeting friends for some food and drinks for several hours; a couple of it spent watching a game of rugby.

There is obviously nothing at all wrong with that but does your group decreasing / the change in circumstances hasten the decision to stop going yourself? Do extra pressures and obligations (depending upon your age; partners, houses, kids, cars, kids at uni, grandkids, etc) make it feel more arduous in some way to pay up - ie. the money could be better spent elsewhere?

I feel a bit of an oxymoron being in my 20s and with no obligations (expect paying my bills) yet conversely attending alone so on the one hand I am free to get a season ticket without having as many outside factors to bear in mind when deciding to get one. On the other hand as it isn't a particularly social activity for me (I go up, get there, maybe chat a little to people stood around me as things happen in the game, then go home again after) my question on whether to renew or not is mainly based on the 'product on offer' and 'value for money'.

If I went up with a load of other people who were similarly free of obligations in life and we were able to 'make a night of it' each time Leeds played, I would spend a lot less time thinking about whether to review - it would be fairly automatic to do so because doing so would mean I could continue being a part of that social group / event.

Is it in some way more about a person's 'own stuff' (ie. obligations and smaller group than previously) that makes them less inclined to get a season ticket or is it predominantly down to the team on the pitch specifically? It sounds more like the former in many cases - which is fine and not a critique - but as others have said, you have probably seen worse Leeds teams in the past yet signed up for season tickets automatically.

As I have been going a couple of years only, I should be more in the group who signs up enthusiastically each year as the examples above outline - but then those examples mention it being more a social / group activity.

I wonder if the quality of the team on the pitch is actually quite low down on the priority list when you have less financial obligations and more friends?

I've been there, seen it, done it as a Leeds fan.

There's nothing else - other than going out of business and starting again somewhere else - this club can give me that I haven't already experienced. That's a big part of the reason I don't put myself to the inconvenience of going up to Headingley every other Friday when I can watch probably 50% of the games from my own armchair.

The lows of the early 80s to the highs of the last decade and pretty much all points inbetween have already been visited. I've just got no desire to go back and revisit them again, while paying through the nose for the privilege.

Exactly.

Its delusional to think that your going to come away from Headingley every other week having witnessed a game that has blown your mind with the intensity of a play-off semi or Grand Final.

If you think you know what your going to get through the season and only want to pick and choose games or turn up at the end "when Leeds start to play" that's fine but don't criticise the FANS who buy a season ticket and want to go every week to watch the games regardless of the outcome. You guys are exactly the type of people that whinge and moan all year but become Leeds no 1 fan when they have some success. There is a name for that.

If I want to buy a season ticket every year its my prerogative, it doesn't make me a mug. I am a fan, I support Leeds Rhinos because I am passionate about them and the product. I am also sensible enough the realise there wont always be success or scintillating, intense games week in week out but then hey, I must be easily pleased.

I honestly cannot comprehend some peoples approach to supporting a team.

This sums up what is wrong with our sport and why our crowds are dwindling.

Go on, explain to me why - assuming that's directed at me.

What obliges me to keep going every week out of blind loyalty to a brand, even when I don't think I'm getting anything out of it?

For me it is more about effort / commitment than glam and entertainment on the pitch. If I can see a team giving 100% but getting pasted most weeks I would accept that. I think at times last year fans on here (and the players in some interviews) suggested they weren't giving 100% in certain games - this is maybe more where the conflict lies? Against the likes of Bradford at home (for instance) many were on auto-pilot. I'd have rather watched an inferior team of all youngsters give 100% and lose than a two-thirds full team giving about 65% and a third of youngsters giving 100%.

I've watched some poor teams in different sports at different times - the specific games that have wound me up most have been the ones where I perceived the least effort was put in with first-team players involved against inferior teams and not grafting at all. Conversely, I have seen my team be totally pummeled by better teams yet have felt more vindicated attending (and therefore better value for money) because they gave 100% - as I do on the terraces. Whatever issues I have with the owner / manager / individual players when the team are playing I support the team and commit my effort to that.

Contrast Bradford or London away when many said they switched off trying the last half hour - to the likes of Saints at home when they gave 100% with 12 men. The result was the same in all, but I think people were a lot more satisfied with the loss v Saints.

For some it will be more about entertainment - I guess this is probably where Keano's 'prawn sandwich' comments came from - but I suspect as ST holders it is likely more about effort and commitment. By stumping up your cash and time every other weekend (or every one, if you go away too) you are making a commitment - in return you hope to see the players being committed too.

What do you want out of it? Loyalty? In what form? Let us know what you want.

Excited. Entertained. Enthused. Like I'm getting value for the money/time it costs to go to games.

I don't, so I've pretty much stopped going. I might pick and choose two or three games a season that aren't on Sky to go to, plus some of the international games and Finals, but that's about the extent of my commitment to watching top flight rugby league in the flesh.

If folks want to think that makes me a "bad", or "lesser" fan or responsible for all of the sport's ills then fair enough, they're entitled to an opinion. I just don't see the point in doing something if I'm not getting something out of it, just because it's what I've always done.

Its up to the RLF and the clubs to have a product worth turning up for. Many go for the social aspect, and out of routine. Thats fine. Others want to see the team put some effort in, rather than go through the motions. If the team can't be bothered to turn up why should the fans?

But what about this loyalty in return you are so concerned about? In what form would you like this?

For the last 4 years I bought a season ticket and made a commitment which entitled me to a price freeze at £200 per season. Is that a loyalty reward? Im not sure?

Every year with said season ticket I have received a £10 voucher to spend in the club shop which has enabled me to purchase a shirt for circa £35. Another loyalty reward?

As a season ticket holder I am eligible to purchase tickets in advance and at a discount for certain games when required.

Free away travel voucher.

Bring a friend for free to one home game. Maybe you could ask one of your season ticket holder friends, assuming you have any, if you could use theirs?

Seems to me your issue isn’t with loyalty but more the quality of the performances on the pitch. You want to be excited every game. You want to be entertained every game. You want to be enthused every game. So do I, but like I said, Im sensible enough to realise this isn’t always gonna be the case.

Would it be different if we won every game emphatically, wiping the floor with all and sundry winning final after final after final? Im guessing it would. And like I said, there is a name for this.

Let's not get caught up in 'FREE' this or that. It's all accounted in for the overall bill you pay. People just like to believe they have got something for nothing.

could i scrap the 'free' away travel voucher and just have £10 knocked of my season ticket price?

Personally don't have a season ticket. Used to but stopped due to working a lot of the games and having a young family too young to take. As they get older will probably get a season ticket but more for a family trip out.

I hate both sides of this argument. I think people criticising and calling people mugs for getting a season tickets is wrong, but equally dislike your type of comment hinting you are more of a FAN as you have a season ticket and thinking this gives you more rights to moan about team selection or when we win become NO 1 fans.

People have various different reasons for buying or not buying a ticket

If you don't enjoy supporting a club then that's fine, no hard feelings.

However for those of us who do want to support Leeds, it's not always about winning well or losing badly - it's the mediocre, the mundane and the standing in the rain at Cas watching a hard fought win. It's a way of life and not something we can just drift away from.

This

That's all well and good but I don't get any of this if I don't buy a season ticket.

And this

Correct.

I know it's none of my business - but I just wanted to tell you that this post really resonated with me.

It's easy to support a winning team and if you just want to jump on a bandwagon then fair enough, the game needs its' share of fair weather fans and armchair fans come to that.

But for many of us it's the game that is important and turning up week in and week out because we enjoy it. I've been over to Leeds to watch WCCs in the past because you can't beat live rugby league.

You've got me wrong. The capitalisation of the word FANS is in response to this below. At no point am I referring to a season ticket holder being more of a fan than someone without. I fully understand, work commitments, financial hardships etc prevent a lot of people buying one.



There is a difference between picking and choosing which games to go to because you are not happy with the product as a whole rather than being able to go to certain games again because of work commitments, financial issues etc and my gripe here is that the people who spend all year criticising, but choose not to go are usually the ones who are straight on the bandwagon the minute we have won something.

I fully understand how hard it is for some people to commit financially. I have a missus and 2 young children. I buy a 2 season tickets every year(kids both under 5), 2 adult shirts and now 2 junior shirts. But as someone mentions a few posts up, its a way of life for some and im one of them, and ill defend myself strongly against anyone who criticises me for this or believes Im a mug.

Depends what constitutes your 'life' at any given point though, doesn't it? I obviously don't know your personal circumstances but assuming you work - if all of a sudden you lost your job and season ticket renewal time came around - you might find that the ST is something you 'drift away from' and does stop becoming a 'way of life'. Similarly if your work tells you they are shifting you to Liverpool or something.

If you go with mates and they all move during the off season, you might 'drift away' from it because your 'way of life' has changed.

For me at the moment it is a big part of my life. But then I live alone, all my friends have moved away from Leeds the last few years, have got married and are now all having babies. If I didn't have a ST those nights would be spent going for a run and watching Have I Got News for You instead. I don't drink at the game so barring match tickets (and buying any clothing) the club doesn't get any more money from me other than what they get at the start of the season.

It is currently part of my 'way of life' but people's lives change. If / when that happens and I change jobs and maybe move elsewhere in the country or find myself in a relationship and / or expecting kids my way of life might change again meaning the ST no longer fits in with stuff.

If in 3 years I am living in Manc with a partner, have got myself on the property ladder (finally!) and am about to become a dad (for instance) my 'way of life' will have changed and therefore the way I spend my time and money will also change. But it wouldn't mean I no longer support the Rhinos - my reality would just be that rather than going fortnightly on my bicycle to the games at Headers, I will maybe only be able to go to a couple a season and at places like Salford instead.

Who knows what the future holds?

I'd like to say in no way does that mean I am criticising those who continue to go when they are having families and all that stuff - it is just the reality for me at the moment is any extra responsabilities like that would cripple me financially so things like a ST would have to go straight out the window.

For those able to balance the necessities and wants with money and able to both pay their bills and be able to have a ST / STs for their family then that is great!