Just realised that I shouldn't have bothered questioning Old Fella who on his signature had us down for relegation this year - clearly an astute reader of the sport!

I think you'll find that my prediction record generally is pretty good.
In my defence I did it before the Bulls were deducted any points & their subsequent implosion.
I think that Cas have been a revelation under Daryl Powell & I bet most of the Cas fans cannot believe the turnround from last year to this.
Personally, I'd have loved to see Powell back here at Leeds, he was a particular favourite of mine when Hetherington brought him here from Keighley. A player who always made the absolute most of his talent & a thoroughly good man too.
I hope we see a cracking final, good spirit between all the fans & a Rhinos victory.
PS you were right about us having virtually a full team out when we drew at HQ, I meant to say that we had a few out when we still managed to win at your place. It was the Sinfield incident that was critical in the last game.

Previous meetings mean naff all remember 2005 when we were favourites against unfancied Hull?
It's 50/50 to be fair but I do think IF we play as good as we can and they do the same we should hold the edge.

Has anyone ever been on the Challenge Cup winning side as a player for three different teams ?
More specifically ... Has anyone ever played for three different sides that have beaten us in the final ?

If it ain't been done I hope Gaz Carvell ain't the first one to do it .

Alex Murphy won the cup with St.Helnens, Leigh and Warrington. Not all of them against Leeds though...

Had Lee Gilmour still been at Cas and not loaned out to Wakey he'd have had a shot of 3 different teams. Bradford and Saints being his others.

Did Gilmour play in the Wigan/Sheffield cup final in 98?

Yes, was on the bench for Wigan I think.

It is clear that stopping Clark will be a major concern for Leeds, much like stopping Tomkins for Wigan a few years ago. This is especially the case as we've tended to be opened up in the middle of the field rather than on the fringes in several of the bigger games we've lost this year. But of course over-focusing on one player could well be our downfall. Adopting a Wane style tactic of niggling players around the ruck could be an option to slow Cas down - albeit a high risk one in a final! Not sure the Leeds players other than Bailey would be up for this anyway.

I'm not sure if the greater big match experience at Leeds will be much help on this occasion - winning at Wembley is evidently a different kettle of fish to winning at Old Trafford (or even the WCC), in which we tend to be able to tough it out in the last 20 minutes. Leeds must start well - in past CC finals we have been unable to overhaul big first-half leads built up by the opposition. If we're more than two scores behind at half time I can't see us coming back.

Good post.

Clarks the danger man. one minute he's there, next he's gone. Such a quality hooker. Leeds will have to slow Cas down and if they can do that and be as disciplined as they were against Wire, Leeds stand a great chance.

But i'd suggest Leeds' big match experience will help lots. They've been to wembley before, know what to expect etc. Whereas Cas don't. Cas may implode under the pressure. Who knows. Leeds want the last monkey off their backs, Cas want to taste glory bad. Plenty of reasons for both to win. I just think Sinfield may pop up with another rousing bout of leadership which may edge it.

I just hope Leeds will be as well drilled as we were on Saturday. That discipline and work ethic just strangles sides. It doesn't look great and neutral fans won't like the spectacle, but for the Leeds fans its genius and has created so many awesome memories.

Agreed, its the basis for all of our great wins. Grind, chase, wear down, defend hard and take opportunities when we get them.
Our tactics in the big games have got us over the line in the past - 2004 kicking over vainakolos head and wearing him down for the last 20 (admittidly he still scored 2 IIFC). 2012 - Ablett running at Briers every opportunity leading to 2 scores through his defensive area. Theyre the 2 that spring to mind. If our senior players step up and play like they can and control the game, then hopefully it will be ours!

I was thinking about this. Who cares about winning pretty in a final? It's all about lifting the trophy. I can't wait!!!

I think we will see McGuire and Ablett putting a few more grubbers down the left edge, make Carney work his balls off. It worked a treat on Saturday and Carney won't like been constantly turned around, Vainikolo style, infact he would do well to get there first to them all.

Cas are a very good attacking team. Very good. So you'd like to think leeds could do the whole grind thing like they have in the GF's. But what if cas are able to find a way through? It's not all that unlikely really. Warrington, despite leeds first half dominance bombed 2 clear tries and had a couple of other clean breaks down the right. Had they not been so incompetent in those moments they'd have gone in probably one score behind which, taking account of how posession and territory swung in the second half would have made things very different.

Should cas get similiar opportunities, which you fancy them to based on their play this season, they will put points on the board. I'm not sure leeds have the attack to go toe to toe with them in that situation (as mental as it sounds).

For leeds to win, they need a lightning fast start and to have more than a try buffer after the first 20 so they can then go for the slow grind. Otherwise they'll end up playing catch up in a you score we score game.

Hmm.. I don't share your concerns here.

I've seen us play Cas twice this season and (until the sending off) have never thought we have looked like losing.

If we play like we know we are capable of then I think we'll win it comfortably.

Millington and Huby are going to be a big loss for Cas but Clarke on that very wide wembley pitch does scare me a lot

If it was any other team (except wiggin) i'd agree. But you know what cas are like.

Whilst this 'grind' tactic has worked at Old Trafford, I'm not sure if that has been our downfall in recent Wembley defeats?

IMO Wembley (unless terrible weather) lends itself to a faster, more open game and recently I think we've been guilty there of not being expansive enough until we are chasing the game.

Given our speed and threats out wide I'd like us to be more expansive (weather conditions allowing) as opposed to the more conservative approach that works well on a drizzly Old Traffford night under lights.

I'm sure Cas are going to be very expansive and IMO I think we need to throw more at them than just simply grinding out our sets .

Wembley lends itself to scoring plenty of points on a dry, hot sunny afternoon and given our great scramble defence of earlier this year, I'd be wanting to open up more and hope our scramble is better than theirs and win what I think would be a high scoring shoot out sort of game given how I think Cas will play, unless they freeze given the occasion of course.

I think we need to take more gas out of Cas in making them having to move side to side and all over the place, dealing with our offloads and in that way hopefully they have less energy to throw stuff back at us and we rely on our fitness and scramble and hope we out score them.

I think playing a conservative style (unless the heavens open) will play into their hands and increase their chances of winning

We need to play how we did in the early stages of this year. In attack, get the ball wide to Watkins, Moon and Hardaker with plenty of space to run at. Watkins in particular would be a nightmare to handle 1 on 1 on such a wide pitch.

As for defence - stop Clark, stop Cas, it's as simple as that. I'd not be adverse to roughing him up early on - let's face it, you're highly unlikely to be sent off nowadays, so let's give him a good old fashioned 'welcome to the party'. Hit him on suspicion every time early on, sod it... Let's erupt a scrum - old school!

I know it is always said because of the way it looks, and although not 100% sure, but I don't think the Wembley pitch is that much wider than Headingley at all, or most other grounds.

When Wembley was rebuilt I think the width of the pitch was brought in narrower than the original Wembley. And again, not totally sure, but I think most Rugby League teams play on a pitch 68 metres in width and 100m in length. I think Wembley is 69m in width.

That said, it is still a fast pitch regardless of size.

Well put and my thoughts as well.
We tend to be too negative at times under BM and as you say Cas are an excellent attacking side, who will definitely test us. Trying to grind out a win at Wembley may well be a mistake.
We need to take some of the better aspects of the Warrington game such as the kicking game and defence but come up with more in attack.
On another note read elsewhere that Huby may yet play. Will he won't he build up to the game similar to Senior at Cardiff.

You start favourites, I'm happy to be the underdog in this one.
Especially if we are missing Chubbs and millo your pack will be a bit too strong for us, and on paper I think you just have the edge on us right across the park.
However, as cloughy used to say - paper teams win paper cups
I got what I dreamed of
1) a wembley final for my kids who weren't born the last time we went (and they normally only come round very 20 years or so for us)
2) an all Yorkshire final - really chuffed about that.
We both went over to Lancashire at the weekend and did them in their own back yard.
Look out wembley - here comes Yorkshire


It would be nice if we could show the best of both our sets of fans and make Yorkshire proud.

Its going to be a quality occasion. As Leeds fans we have been very lucky with this generation of team and the days out they have given us as supporters. That said, ive been to every Rhinos CC Final since 94, and we only we've only one it once, so hopefully, we will be able to bring it home this year, but i haven't even looked at, let alone started counting my chickens just yet!!