Agreed but that on its own doesn't justify recognition as above and beyond the call of duty.

Define who/what is a hero or Legend then?
Jjb grew up as a local kid who supported the team he's played for with distinction during its most successful period and has been part of a legacy of home grown players that has transformed the Club from nearly men/also rans/laughing stock to SL Champions 6 times whilst also winning 3 WCC's and appearing numerous finals.
Now he hasn't been a "bit part player" either nor a "passenger" he's played a key role during that time and earned his international call ups.
Not to mention his hours spent at community and amateur club events.
In terms of RL in Leeds and the history of our Club he is a Legend and a Local Sporting Hero.

I have already said it above. Sinfield could be defined as a legend. Achieving something no other has in our history, and was instrumental in making that all happen, whilst others hung on to his shirt tails. Robin Hood, Captain America, Spiderman, plenty of police officers, firemen, doctors, etc, can be defined as a heros, someone playing rugby is not.

There will always be hangers on in a team sport, and individuals who are paramount to what is achieved. Sinfield is the latter.

Whether someone was born in Kirkstall, or Leicester, quite frankly makes very little difference, and I don't believe would be part of any true definition of Legend or hero.

This is not restrictred to JJB, there is plenty of players over the last 10 years who have been lucky to play with some great players, especially two or three. This is about Sinfield, and why he is over and above somebody just doing their job, he has done and achieved more than that.

Absolute garbage. JJB has been as much a part of the success as Sinfield. Without his hard grafting work ethic, his ability to motivate his team mates not to mention ability to be the only permanent fixture in the starting pack for 10 years, we would not have won as much as we did.

I agree with this chap. I'd argue that Sinfield has been the mpost important player across those 10 years of success, but would put JJB not far behind.

However, it still baffles me that people get so excited about the merits of awarding these honours to people in the public eye (like sports people and entertainers). In most cases it's a publicity stunt (in some there are valid reasons based on off-field/camera). It is what it is.

There are lots of people awarded them for perfectly good reasons. I know a guy who has an MBE for services to youth work. His view was that without sundry "celebrities" being on the list, the list itself would probably not have made the papers, and he wouldn't have the page from the Times in a frame next to his presentation photo. You might also go a step further and ponder whether the list would still exist to recognise such worthy characters if it didn't also fuel the national celebrity obsession and/or assorted business cronies of the current government.

Do people deserve OBEs for playing sport? My answer is that it doesn't matter whether they do or not. It depends what you think the honours list is for.

What a load of poop. JJB motivate his team mates? give over. He is an hard grafting very average talent back rower. You could have gone out and had another 200/300 JJB's over the period he has been in the team. Comparing him with Sinfields importance to the success is absolute ludicrous.

Surely heroes are defined by their public. They're only a hero if someone feels that way about them. Therefore heroes are so often sportsmen and fair enough if that's how fans feel about them. Heroes of the modern era. There are no dragons to slay, but there are Giants and Wolves

Do you own a secret back row forward cloning factory or something?

If you could have found another 200/300 JJBs over the last few years, you could have given just a couple of them to the Rhinos to fill the gaps we've had.

and pretty much every other SL side. If we were creating 20 JJB's every year we could have enough players for 40 pro clubs, rather than needing to cut to 12.

I know there is an incredible amount of biase at times on here which blanks peoples minds, but what exactly are you trying to argue there?

For a start just forget about UK, and look at the NRL. 16 teams, with each having four backrowers, that's a pool of 64 players, minimum right now. Look at that over the 13 year period, and be very conservative and say that would have changed 4 times each in that period. That's 256 right there.

That's completely ignoring, the Queensland and New South Wales leagues with 26 teams between them, France, New Zealand, other developing nations, and then of course back to our own Super League.

There is many average players out there who can equally hold there own in teams where real stars carry them around.

.....and all those players you think were the equal or better than JJB?

He is more than averagely talented. How many back-rowers playing RL competitively in this country have that level of talent? Or are you using a hitherto unknown definition of average?

In any event, sporting success is a measure of more than pure talent. Do you really think a man who is almost always close to the top of the tackle count, who has led more kick-chases than we could count and who is, by all accounts, an infectiously enthusiastic and driven character is of no importance to the team?

We can agree to disagree, opinions being like h0les and all that. JJB remains my 2nd favourite player in the multi-title winning (2003-2012) vintage.

So every backrow in the NRL (and a number from other lower competitions) is better than a player who has played for England / GB a number of times over several email?

Like many of your claims on here there is some element of sense behind it, but it gets lost in the vast over-exaggeration that you are prone to followed by a desperate attempt to justify you exageration.

JJB is not the most wonderfully gifted back rower, like a Lauiti'iti or a Menzies, but he is bloody talented, and his work ethic and value to the squad make up for that plenty, and for me allow him to be mentioned as a great of this team.

Would JJB have made any NRL side during that 13 year period? No he wouldn't, so in answer yes to your first question. By the way, I didn't use the word "better" anywhere, I clearly said average back rowers, a description that matches the majority around the world (IMO), and hence why I said you could find so many who could have done his job.

Where we agree is when you talk of work ethic, and I have never said shyed away from that credit to him. Where we differ, is talented. He isn't, in fact in some areas he is below average, and then makes it back up in others.

The point entirely was that you could have had another body in there in his shirt and called him Jamie Jones Goodcannon, and the success wouldn't have changed. Sinfield was the the master behind that success, and why I said he was way above the others when looking at honours to be recognised. It wasn't about JJB, and obviously he appeals to some and good luck to them. What I wouldn't have given though to have some of the backrowers we have had over the years in failed teams, to have been part of the Leeds of last 10 years.

Give me a player who does a high volume of little things to a usually very high standard over a show-pony any day of the week.

Gotcha, I think you are both seriously over estimating the quality across the NRL, underestimating JJB's ability, and using a poor definition of "average"
A lot of errors for one paragraph.

Either that, or just trolling. But trolling should be more than just being called out for talking .

I would say you need to understand "average" before having at a go at someone. Then you can see the context that I said it in, and in which I am most certainly not undervalueing any player.

And the use of the word "poop" was in reply to what I consider ludicrous that anyone would say JJB value to this squad is anywhere close to that of Sinfield.

Did you mean modal, mean or median average? You defined average as "a description that matches the majority around the world" which isn't a description of any form of average I recognise. I didn't have a go at you or anyone. I did criticise your posting.

And the use of the word "poop" was in reply to what I consider ludicrous that you would say JJB's value to this squad was that you could have had another body in there in his shirt and called him Jamie Jones Goodcannon, and the success wouldn't have changed.

Forget your maths, if you have 10 6ft blokes in a room, then the average hight of them is 6ft, if you have 10 20 stone blokes in a room, the average weight of them is 20 stone. If you have 250 backrowers playing rugby league around the world now, 20 are top class and removed, 30 are utter poop and removed, you are left with 200 which are pretty much the same, or in other words average, the majority.

You are putting too many players into the "average" category. How about having 250 around the world categorised as:
10 top tier internationals
20 capable of playing top tier intl
30 good club players
40 above average club players
40 average club players
40 below average club players
40 poor players
30 utter poop.

Where would you put JJB in that set of categories?

Maybe so, but that was an example, and the truth is there is more star players, and more poop, but you still have a high percentage that do a similar job for their respective clubs. Point was Leeds could have had Hansen, Ferris, Ferguson, Waterhouse, Langley, all as an example instead of JJB, and Leeds would still have had the success. Sinfield on the other hand was different, as you could have had Benji Marshall IMO, and I don't think he would have repeated what Sinfield delivered.

Corrected, etc.

Very good El Diablo!

Gotcha - spouting rubbish under various aliases since RLfans began!

Sinfield is clearly one of a kind and in my eyes will go down as the greatest Leeds player. However, to suggest he has achieved this almost singlehandedly and gaps could have been plugged by average players is a nonsense. To win 6 titles in 10 years you need a core of above average players. You also a culture and a work ethic to ensure players remain hungry for success. JJB is certainly the former and most definitely a integral part of the latter.

I remember a speech from sinfield after one of the last two grand final wins saying when we went behind early jonesy was the one who spoke behind the posts reminding everyone they'd been there before. I know kev and most others at the club hold him in very high regard.

As for the other thread about the kit, quite frankly you and sal have embarrassed yourselves. One of the most recogniseable faces in RL, who is synonymous with the leeds brand, has won 6 grand finals and is a local lad who many people can relate to. I'd say he's a perfect person to model the new kit

Gotcha-Langley ,Ferris and Ferguson ??? WTF
None have had the sustained impact/comsistncy of quality performances over the length of time Jjb has had and especuially Biscuit bones Langley he's had 2 max good seasons ,Ferris has only kicked on since joining the Giants and Ferguson nowhere near despite early potential.
I rate Hanson and as for Waterhouse hardly set the world on fire over here.