The legacy comes from Powell as well IMO. Had he not started it, we would never have had all this, he built it to start. But then again, without Hetherington, he wouldn't have been in the job and wouldn't have had the tools to do it.

So Hetherington has been the most influential man at Leeds during the period of success? I don't think you can argue with that. Coaches have come and gone, so have players.

When you consider the mess Leeds were in when he arrived he should be revered a lot more than he is.

Believe in the sleeve.

I believe McDermott rates as good as any coach we have had. He took over after a very unchampion looking side had mostly played boring one up rugby in McLennan's last year. True he inherited a champion pedigree squad but we should remember the stars of the side were showing distinct signs of being past their best. He also took over with 2 of our best players out with long term injuries and his season started with a spate of injuries which at one stage left him with only 1 prop. The key players struggled with form for much of the season and it is to his great credit that he kept faith with these same players and motivated them to a Wembley final and a super run in to win the GF from a record making 5th place. To repeat this in his second year is no coincidence and should have convinced those doubters he has something special.

Many of his critics forget his important contribution as assistant coach to Smith (who he had previously helped in gaining Hudderfield promotion)

Rugby more than most sports relies on team spirit and working for each other. Players understand this which is why most of the squad rate him highly as he remains loyal to his choices.

Ok some of his selections and interchange decisions can raise eyebrows but it is his call and he knows which players can best achieve his game plans.

He is presiding over a tricky transitional period with tough choices that none of his predecessors had to face and he is also having to do it without the comfort that they had of recruiting a slot-in Aussie signing when the need arises. Therefore it would be reasonable to expect a couple of years without silverware...but I am sure this is not in Big Mac's script.

Yes, but if it is difficult to assess the contribution of a coach to success, it is even harder to assess the contribution of an assistant.

Many Bulls fans reckon McNamara was a major reason Bradford won the GF in 2005, yet he went on to accomplish very little in his career as senior coach (the Bulls still had most of their top players in 2005, including Peacock, Vainikolo, Hape, Fielden, Pryce + Morley etc). Similarly, some blamed the assistant coaches for the failure of McNamara's teams from 2007 onwards. McDermott's coaching at London was not successful, and the team finished progressively lower with him as coach.

What is the evidence that Brian Mac was a major contributing factor to previous success at Leeds when he was assistant? As opposed to the likes of other assistants like Poching, Cummins, Lowes?

I don't have a particular axe to grind here by the way.

Having a good chairman (Paul Caddick) with deep pockets provided a bit of help too as did the dawn of summer rugby which revitalised the whole game.

He will incontrovertibly go down in the annals of history as a 'successful' coach ....and who can begrudge him the shared glory in the last two magnificent (unexpected) GF victories. I can't and don't

However, for consistent entertainment value throughout the regular season he leaves much to be desired. I cannot answer for anybody else but personally I do not look forward to watching any regular SL matches with the same enthusiasm as in recent seasons: a combination of being guaranteed the same old tired faces regardless of form or claims from the u-19's (unless he has no choice of course) and a hopeless. clueless inability/lack of coached ideas near the try line.
The failure to win a CC final is a puzzle when reviewed in the light of the GF victories.

I do think he will be at Leeds for a while longer: there is every chance Leeds can still win another GF this season owing to the general paucity of good consistent competition within SL at the moment.

Oh and anybody that can select Vickery as often as he did surely loses some of that unquestioning respect from some on here

You are correct about Caddick , he set out the format which has brought about success on the field, also it looks like we are financially sound.
Prior to Paul Caddick taking over I gather we were just about bust, also certain people trying to buy the club at that time did not have the clubs best interests to heart.
One person allegedly trying to buy into the club went bankrupt a few years after trying to buy into the club.

difficult one. you cannot knock his record.
2 seasons
4 finals
2 wins
outstanding.
however, there has to be a however, he baffles the hell out of me.
his use of replacements and lack of using them all, seemingly flogging older players.
his brilliant work with backs but not the forwards is also odd given his playing position. add that with not replacing buderus.
a real enigma our brian

2 WCC finals too. The lack of replacement of Buderus would be down to GF not BM. Let's hope you keep being baffled by BM then

I don't count WCC as they are as a result of winning something else

why do you always paint our coaches in a negative light in terms of their personalty?

I seem to remember you insinuating Smith was some kind of evil dictator who treated everyone like kids when he was here.

There always seems to be this innuendo and snide comments, what the f*ck man, why do you character assasinate our coaches?

When Brian came to the club he talked about us playing an attacking brand of rugby that will entertaining and effective. Nearly 3 years on and we haven't seen it. In fact, as a previous poster stated, it's some of the worst I've seen. Because of this, he won't go down as a legend in my eyes. Yeah, I've loved winning the GF from 5th, but although it is a results business, there's more to it.

He does come across as stubborn, such as playing Robbie at 9 for so long even though everyone else could see it wasn't working.

I was really looking forward to him taking over but have been a bit disappointed if I'm honest. And there's been some real low times under him

How was the rugby under McClennan from post easter 2008 onwards?

Smith post perpignan 2005?

Theres an argument that we haven't played ''attractive'' rugby sin/ce midway through 2005, bar the start of McClennan's reign in 2008.

attractive rugby doesn't win you many games in the modern leagues and it certainly won't help you win finals; in the past the gap between top clubs & poor clubs was big enough to throw the risky/attractive ball alot more, now the poor teams are good enough to handle most of the off the cuff play and counter attack when it goes wrong, so its all about the structure/shape these days.

Very true



Some coaches/managers are better as the No2 than the No 1. But in McDermott's case he did go on to accomplish plenty at Leeds as senior coach.



But this is not the full story. McDermott took over a troubled side mid season from Tony Rea in July 2006 and did turn turnaround their fortunes with a strong finish. Then the off the field troubles continued with their Chairman moving to Wigan and the finances dired up so much so that key players Henry Paul, McLinden and Scott Hill left and then injuries struck and new recuits Fa'afili and Haumuina never even played a game. The club have never recovered from the lack of finances and the lack of recruits from downunder. So no coach is likely to be successful under these circumstances. To McDermott's credit he stayed and did good work in developing young local talent.



Plenty of circumstantial evidence. Consider the common denominator in the following:

1. Smith's Hudderfield were relegated. After McDermott joined him as assistant they were promoted
2. Smith brought him along as assistant when he joined Leeds and in their first season finished 1st and became 2004 SL Champions
3. In 2005 we finished 2nd and were Grand finalists and Smith was voted Coach of the Year aided by McDermott.
4. In 2006 McDermott left in July to join Harlequinns who Leeds had already beaten 0-60 away. I seem to remember just after he left we lost 4 games on the trot at a time when BM was turning the Harlequinns season around. Leeds failed to win anything and lost many more games than the previous 2 seasons added together despite the signing of Toopi signed in July 2006 following the cature of Peacock earlier.
5. In 2007 Smith's Leeds went on the become champions again helped by the big name signings of the exceptional and influential Webb and Leuluai.

I also had the chance to witness McDermott in action at Leeds and know he was well repected by the players for his contribution.



The only axe I have to grind is to object and argue against the unfair and personal put downs that Mcdermott seems to attract from certain posters...yourself excepted of course.

Have memories of 1996 and 2000 really faded so quickly?

Just on Vickery - because I love this topic - I'll again defend BM on selecting him, at least until the WCC and for a few games thereafter. He did reasonably well pre-season - hence getting a deal in the first place - and IMO it was completely understandable that BM would go with someone with a bit of experience (particularly open age) in BJB's absence.

He probably should have been dropped earlier, but I'd guess BM thought he'd get a bit of confidence at some stage and play to his best. As it is that never happened. It certainly couldn't have helped his confidence with posters on here blaming him for everything except the GFC. Hudds at home ring a bell? I went and rewatched all the tries against us because they were apparently all down to Vickery - in fact only one was with Watkins far more at fault.

Given the ridiculous negative hype about Vickery, BM backed him to his own detriment. I expect that sort of atittude is probably why the players like BM more than some fans.

BTW that doesn't excuse some p*ss-poor showings on BM's watch - particularly last year. Or his weird use of subs and not rotating ageing forwards. Or Burrow starting at hooker. I think BM at times is too idiosyncratic and determined to show he's right. But in general when it counts the senior players have responded very well to him, and that's what counts.

Idiosyncratic? For sure, though not necessarily a bad thing. Determined to show he's right? I'm not convinced McD gives a fig what others think, in which case he's unlikely to feel the need to prove anything to anybody.
Maybe its more a case of his avoiding kneejerk reactions, instead only making changes when experience shows that they are necessary.
Regardless, a third consecutive GF win will be a stand-alone in terms of coaching success at Leeds.

I feel physically ill that this fool is mentioned in the same breath as Murray, Smith, Bluey.

Well if Leeds win SL this season he'll have surpassed the acheivements of all three

Been watching some of 2009 Bluey era games and boy he put some venom in that team in games against Saints.

Bails..Senior..Webb..JJB.....Kylie full of hatred in their eyes. Enjoying hurting them. The likes of Wilkin couldn't cope. Great series of battles those, tailed off alot and it was only a few years ago.

I think he has clearly earned the right now to be mentioned alongside the best we have had in SL era. Would 'the double' this year make him the best?

Thoughts

Yep, I think it would. If we are chanting in victory at Old Trafford in October, then Bradford and London will fade as just bad dreams.

What was interesting at Wembley on Saturday was when Mac was handed the trophy, he seemed reluctant to lift it above but the Leeds fans clearly shouted for him to do so, and he got great acclaim when he did so.