Some great points and i agree with many but imo it's still too early to write off the season.
Like i said the injured lads getting back and finding form will be key but at the same time i hope our recruitment doesn't stop at just re-signings.
On a positive i do think we now have a great chance and plenty of fixtures to give more of our U19's a chance and hopefully they will step up and show their potential.
In terms of our CEO he's the best around imo and wouldn't swop him for any other but i would ask whether its he alone that sees this re-signing policy as a good move or both he and the coach??
For me 2 or 3 have run their course and i'd be happy to replace all of them with younger squad lads from within the club so i hope we don't regret it.
I don't think anyone can deny that we are on the brink of one of the biggest squad transitions since Powell did his "out with the old and in with the new" and IF the current Coach is the man to oversee that then i think he needs nudging in that direction as of now especially upfront where imo we really could find ourselves losing 2 top FR's in one go and be left with Moore 33/34 Kirke34/35 a young and inexperienced Singleton and everyones favourite Bailey.
That to me would be pretty foolish as would letting some of our promising u19's go without at least giving them the odd game or seeking a decent loan period at Championship level.

McDermott 5 more years God no
This coach will not drop his stars Gh should get someone in who is not afraid to upset said stars and will pick his team on form and merit regardless of upsetting 1 quarter of the dressing room

Bit early to write off the season when Leeds only have to turn up for and target two good performances and two wins - a semi final and the grand final itself. All the other games are just inconsequential season fillers.

.....too true unfortunately. If Leeds were to win those matches (looking ever less likely - [uthankfully[/u) all would be 'forgiven' by the majority yet again.

Tell that to the SEASON ticket holders ....Think I'll save my brass and just turn out for play offs then .

thats what i did this year. £300 saved and not missed it TBH. on sky nearly every week!

Seems to me like fate has delivered us a great big turd in the guise of a load of injuries to key players and the arguments of the youth obsessives are just the flies buzzing around it.

Flawed analysis has attached itself to an unrelated problem.

Well said tvoc.

This one camp or the other poop is ridiculous.

Like I said yesterday, some posters just continue with a stubborn blind ignorance stance because they feel they have to. I bet they do not have the same opinion away from the message board. If they do then good luck to them, it must be hard. But the others need to stop trying to just sucker up to others.

There is grey areas. Like wanting to utilise youngsters to rotate the squad when easier games allow. Is it seen as that? No, it's seen as get rid of the players with many GF rings and just play a youngster every week. Posters not capable of seeing what is really put.

The need to strengthen from a position of strength is what every sporting organisation should strive for. Resting on your laurels should never be an option in this game.

Sadly the same things have been said on the Wigan board all season... Not a criticism of the Leeds achievements, though many Leeds fans have seen it that way, just that if you change the goal to a playoff at the end of the season, it will, and does diminish the games in the regular season..

You can go look, but some Wigans fans, although wanting to beat you at the Ethiad, would not have been too concerned if we lost... Thats a worry for me.

Problems would be less if you had others prepared to slot in...

The loss of McGuire should force us to play with a proper hooker and have Burrow at 7. Finally we will have a real 7 and a real 9 on the pitch in the correct positions. Although I think that will change when Stevie Ward is fit again and we'll see everyone shuffled around to accommodate Burrow at 9 and McShane benched or dropped completely.

The season is no where near a right off. We can defend. If we had been able to attack even 10% better we would have beaten Hull and Wigan. Saints was a blow out, not really sure WTF happened there, but not representative of the season so far.

Absolute rubbish the Coach and Skipper were very vocal during pre-season about rotation and indeed on numerous occasions various staff and squad members have bigged up our u19's.
Like others have said the rotation policy hasn't been implimented when some have been of the opinion we had chances to do as such.
No-one is obsessed and just so we are clear i've seen most of our u19's games and i'm still of the opinion there is stacks of potential amongst them and i'd like to see us utilise them in certain games rather than chopping and changing positions etc etc whilst also picking the 17 regardless of form.
At least had 2/3 had a go earlier on they wouldn't be going in "cold" now the saving grace is aside from the Giants away we have some fixtures which avoid the top 4 teams just as a side how have Sutcliffe and Singleton done since inclusion btw? 2 of the names a few of us have called for to get game time???
It seems easy for many to dismiss the u19's "because the coach hasn't picked them" well we have 1 and 1 younger squad member taht have come in and done well which is what some us only wanted to see some younger lads get a chance.
From my own pov i've said many times the coach has done well releasing Senior ,Webb et al and giving young lads a go but he seems less inclined to do it elsewhere within the squad.
No-one has said we should ditch 5/6 lads and throw all the kids in just give them chances to gain experience or at the very least give us a chance to gauge where they are development wise or even if we see them as not quite good enough and need to recruit at least we'll know.
It's a straight forward opinion and in no way the BS routine you are implying above.

Shock horror Rogues posts regarding age! Think about what's happend since last years U20's final? It might give you some help in understanding why?

@Rhinoms

It's not hard to prove that McDermott's coaching methodology contributes to GF victory.

Your argument that more squad rotation using young players would be better for the team is fatally flawed because it relies on the fact that McDermott wants something other than what is best for the team. Or that contributors to this forum knows the players' abilities better than he does. Both of those premises are demonstrably bollox.

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism and nothing wrong with alternative points of view. Nothing wrong with a bit of loyalty either for champion coaches and players.

I agree. But in the circumstances of some great servants of the club suffering nasty injuries some contributors here seem to be almost jubilant about the prospect of playing a second string. Well it seems their tired old theory of fielding a youth squad in SL is about to be tested...

The players, the coach, and the CEO i'd imagine, like most other teams. Sinfield I think it was said to the YEP pre-season as have others that finishing top was a target for the team. The challenege cup as eluded this outstanding set of players for years so yes I'd imagine again the players and coach would want that coup. The WCC from a marketing point of view is great to have the tag of 'world champions' so I'd imagine our CEO would have love to have retained it. We have failed in all so far.


Ok fair enough a write off is a harsh assessment. But how about extremely lessoned the chances of us achieving anything of note this season?


The performances of our so called star players to me are hinting of complacency, check out Ryan Bailey's new hoody and T-shirt range if you don't believe me. He obviously has begun to believe in his own hype and the phrase 'he does what he wants' sadly has resulted in him going about the pitch like a loon causing trouble for his own team.


Not quite, plenty of new posters have emerged on this board, posted an opinion which is disagreed with and is essentially hounded out as everything they post from there on in is referenced back to that first opinion. Obviously there are a group of posters who are friends outwith the board who stick up for eachother and this what seems to be ring of posters such as yourself who seem to think can set the standards on the board. You even made a thread about yourself being away and how has equated to the board declining. I.E people are freely expressing their own opinions and not regurgitating the usual rhetoric set by the 'bigger' posters.


Well depending on how you'd like to measure it if we look at it as:
Turnover? Check
Profit? Check
Large attendances? Check
Ability to produce international standard players? Check
Seen as a big game to the other teams? Check
Won large amounts of trophies recently? Check

Whilst not being THE biggest or THE best I'd say it's not unreasonable to call us one of the biggest or one of the best teams in the world. As of which means it's not unreasonable for the fans to expect better from the high standards set by the club previously. It seems they have become complacent on reach such high success.


A club of our stature today should expect more than what we are currently being given. It doesn't matter what we were like before the CEO took over; if our CEO wants to delcare that we have the best squad ever then maybe we should put in performances to reflect as such?


Apparently a large number of fans feel the same resulting in a decline in our attendances as people do not want to watch a team which is only able to perform in 6 or 7 games a year.



It would seem wrong, I'm sure many others feel the same way that a band of posters who frequent the board seem to dictate what opinions can be held and by whom. yes maybe people should 'man up' but is it worth the hassle if they get constantly hounded for holding a differing view of something. Not worth their time.


Well yourself for a start, as most of the posters who believe everyone only cares about the last few weeks of the season. As stated before whilst the recession will be a contributory factor as will others I do believe the lack of apparent effort or consistency shown by the team in the regular season for whatever reason is putting people off going to watch us. Again, I don't see how retaining the likes of Kirke or the lack of progress on the new south stand is going to aid to the situation either. Whilst entirely possible we may go on to win another GF the signs so far do not look good considering I'd say the 3 big games we've played this year have been lost. The WCC, challenege cup and magic weekend fixture V wigan which essentially ends our league hopes. We can assume that the trend of previous years may continue but I've seen little to suggest this year will result in the same outcome.

Who has said or even implied that the Coach doesn't want what's best for the team??
As for knowing players abillities it's about opinions are you saying all is fine and all are either on form or up to Sutcliffe and Singleton thus far have shown it was right to pick them and shock horror maybe they are afterall ready to step up.
Many players are out of form with 1 or 2 jaded not 100% the U19's have lost 1 game all year again i refer you to the Coach and many others statements about rotation and posters opinions that we have had chances to do as such again how does that imply the Coach doesn't want what's best for the team??
It's obvious we have players that are off form and imo 1 or 2 who aren't up to it so should that opinion remain unposted??
Giving young players experience when the chances arise clearly avoids throwing them in at the deep end when the injuries bite now other than square pegs in round holes ,sticking with those not good enough we will have to throw 1 or 2 in cold with players not 100% and lacking form which could have been avoided somewhat.
It worked for Tony Smith and even Mclennon indeed our current Coach has done it with Ward and others all im saying is it should continue and we have missed chances now we have injuries and loss of form so whoever comes in it will be more difficult than coming into a winning side with top players firing on all cylinders.
There's no agenda or saying we know better than the coach (from most of us) and it's certainly a method that's worked extremely well for us in the last decade or was that logic flawed and bollox aswell??
No-one is suggesting anything outragous or what hasn't happened previously

Not this poster and that's you clearly mis-reading/understanding my opinions if you think that's the case.
As for the rest i refer you to my above post i've clearly set it out and i stand by it.

For a statement like that to be valid you must know better than the coach. The fact that he is a coach that wins competitions and you're not doesn't improve your arguments' prospects. I've never suggested invalid arguments shouldn't be posted although I thought the tone of some of yesterday's posts - not yours - was pretty poor given the nature of some of the injuries suffered by experienced players.

Anyway, as I say, the opportunity to field a more youthful squad is here. I hope it's a valuable experience.

Ok lets put it this way i assume you haven't won a GF either as a Coach do you think ALL our team are in form and EVERYONE of them is up to it for a top 4 team?
As for the injuries i'd never take pleasure in seeing a player injured serious or otherwise especially lads like Mags and Watkins.
In terms of experience for the younger lads it will show us imo either way if they are good enough/ready or have the potential to be good enough/ready and in the end if they should be moved on or retained but at least we'll have a clearer idea.

Have people even bothered looking at the seasons situation......

- We have 2 quite winnable games in hand which would take us up to 3rd.
- 1st-4th & 6th still have cup runs to navigate through.
- 10 of our 12 league games since the WCC were against Top 8 teams....
- 8 of our next 10 are games against teams outside the Top 8

- Whilst not being at its best the last few games our defence is still a big improvement on were it was during the 2012 season. Seen several defensive showings this year that give cause for encouragement.
- We seem to get downfield ok and making metres hasn't been a problem, we were pretty even with Hudds & Hull in that department even though we weren't at our best.
- Our attack in the final 20m is the issue and has been even when winning, but now due to McGuire's injury it looks like we're going to get the chance to see the balance of the side improve with McShane at 9....if not that then Sutcliffe in the halves which people have been crying out for anyway.

Whilst I don't wish injury on anyone, the McGuire one could yet prove to be a 'blessing' ala Senior (2011) & Webb (2012).

As for the old "not enough effort during the regular season".....their is no doubt we haven't played to well in the last 4 games but I certainly wouldn't say that's due to effort and just being off form. The way Wigan have smashed teams this year, you don't lose by just 4 with what some was a debatable VR decision. In fact in all the 4 losses we've been below par yet gone into the final 10 mins still with a chance to nick the win.

Already I'm hearing murmurings of people not going to bother attending games again....."if they don't care why should I blah blah blah".....however as I see it the next home game against Cas has become much more interesting due to the fact we're going to see plenty of different faces and probably a different balance to the side. The likes of Sutcliffe, Singleton, McShane, Clarkson and Keinhorst and maybe others, players people on here have been asking to get games/more minutes....well now is your chance to see it.....or are you going to bail because of a poor showing last week? If anything these lads need your support more than the regular 1st teamers did.

Whilst I agree with the Printers sentiments, lets get behind the lads, I'd like to know where he gets those rose coloured specs from!!!

Leeds just need to return to winning ways and get back on the horse, then suddenly things will have a different complexion.

Remember leeds have 2 games in hand, if they can manage to win those they are right back in contention for 2nd place and ready to apply presssure to first if wigan were to slip up. Get some bodies back as well, week off for the CC final just before the playoffs, and suddenly things start to look very promising....it's likely they could end up being 2 big games at home away from another grand final.

We just have to ride out this rough period and stay strong.

In terms of our likely rivals, wigan and hudds have had it all their own way so far and warrington have been abit hit and miss. Hull, after an initial run of very winnable games have managed to build up some confidence and momentum and knock off a few of the top teams. In playoff rugby we'll stand every chance and they'll be nothing in it.

Stay calm.

Since the WCC leeds have had a very tough run. Had it not been for their own stupidity (wigan and saints) they would have negotiated it with only a cuople league defeats.

Things have the potential to really come together at the right time again now with an ''easier'' run over the next few months and some players returning as well as no challenge cup run, which some of our rivals will have.

This team isn't done yet, don't let your belief waiver.