We have struggled in attack all year especially on the opposition line. I have said this now for nearly three years we are picking a team around sinfield at stand off and this is all because Burrow was not cutting it as scrum half and the burrow mcquire combo not quite right. So we move burrow to hooker to allow our stand off mcquire to move to scrum half. If our coach has no confidence in mcshane as starting hooker I would put sinfield at hooker next year and move mcquire to stand off and sign a quality scrum half like Dobson to move the team around the field and give our three quarters some quality ball. Most teams I have seen this year in superleague are far better and structured with the ball in hand than leeds are. We have been masking over this problem since buderus left and Lunt managed to fill the void at the end of last year. Sinfield has always looked good at hooker for gb and his distribution and speed around the ruck are excellent. Burrow to play as impact off the bench and after we have raidered hull kr for Dobson at the end of the season why not sign mickey pea also. We need to get a good rumbing prop that can take the weight off peacock and Kyle and putt fear in the opposition. Moore needs to be released he is not good enough for Leeds IMO. When bailey went off on Monday we fell apart !!

Over reactions galore..

ok, ill bite.

So its all fine at leeds? being dross in the last 2 regualr seasons is ok, as long as we win the GF? happy with the squad? no issues with the age of our props? no? good. wont hear you moaning in 2-3 years when leeds are utter e for not having blooded the youngsters sooner.

1. I wasn't happy with our regular season performances last year, and clearly the team wasn't judging by how we have played so far this year (bar the last 2 games), so far this year we have beaten; Wigan, St's, Warrington, Catalan, all teams who will be challenging for the league this year.

2. Yes I am happy with the squad.

3. By age of our props i'm assuming you mean JP and Kylie who have both been playing exceptionally so far this year. In relation to younger props we have Singleton, who contrary to the belief of some, will get his chance this year, due to Moore playing for Hunslet yesterday Singleton will likely play on sunday against probably our biggest rivals this year. In addition to Singo we have Jordan Baldy (who is currently captaining England U18's in France), Brian Mc has said in recent interviews that Baldwinson could very well get game time in the coming weeks.

4. RE Blooding youngsters - I have already mentioned Singleton and Baldwinson, last week we saw Liam Sutcliffe's Debut (I see him as our future Stand Off), In addition last year we saw Stevie Ward earn himself a starting spot, another played with bags of potential who could play 13,12,6 or even 7. Also Jimmy Keinhorst made 6 appearances last year including a bench spot for the CC final, I personally don't know where he will fit into the team due to our very young backline which includes 3 academy graduates. Furthermore Liam Hood played well in the limited game time that he had and according to other posters he is doing well at Hunslet.

Overall we have a very young and talented back line, with plenty of good outside backs also coming through the U19's at the moment, we also have good prospects for both 6 and 13, in the future we will have a strong younger forward pack with, Singleton, Baldwinson, Achurch, Ablett(Only 2icon_cool.gif, Clarkson and more such as Elliot Minchella, plus we have plently of options at hooker with McShane, Hood and from what i've seen of the U19's this year Vila Halafihi could be a good prospect at. The only position I could see us having an issue at is Scrum Half however if we keep the U19 partnership of Sutcliffe and White together then we will flourish for years to come.

Hope I have explained my views clearly.

Wish the big dumb prop that is our coach had your vision .

Some good points Matty but from my own pov as good as JP and kylie have been and now that we've retained kirke on a 2 yr deal do expect the good young talenty to just wait till the other 3 keel over?
Lets not forget Bailey and Moore who are still here aswell.
I honestly think Moore and Kirke should be gone and at the very least Singleton in the starting 17 every other week with the likes of Baldwinson ,Minchella ,Sutcliffe and Foster/Tonks given the odd game here and there to at least get some experience and scope into theri careers.
I agree Mc has done well with the back line getting them into regular spots and Stevie Ward but to me he seems to rely on the oldies the pack far too often for far too long irrespective of form.
The same could be said of the HB's and 9 i just hope it doesn't bite when we either get 3/4 injuries or again we have 3/4 departures/retirements at once.
I won't go as far as saying "we're all doomed" nor asking for 8/9 changes at once but i do think we should be upping the rotation and getting more games for the younger lads.

So let's be clear rhinoms. Are you saying we should have rotated our 2 best and in form props (JP & Kylie) ? And are you now saying we should rest both Sinfield and McGuire?

During a full season opportunities will arise for the young reserves as injuries occur. JP's injury will now give him an unforced rest so earlier rotation would have been a waste. Singleton will get his chances but the coaches have a big responsibility when selecting a young player to be sure they are ready mentally and physically particularly a young prop. Losing Ablett and Ward means others will also get a chance in the coming weeks.

Rotation can be used for 2 different reason. One reason is simply to rest a key players while the other is to allow a reserve some game time. If a player is fit and in form I do not favour rotating them unless the replacement is of the same standard. However I would consider giving game time to a youngster, who is ready, in place of a less effective player.

Out of form key players will best regain their form by playing.

Mac will never rest the likes of Sinfield,Burrow etc.. it just is never going to happen.He has had many chances to rest his senior pro's during his time in charge and i can hardly think of any instance in which he has taken advantage.

I even expect the players that play for England vs Exiles on the Saturday will back up on the Monday night for us against Widnes in June.

So if you are unfortunate enough to share the same position as a "key" player you have to wait until they are injured before you get a chance .Brilliant!!!! That lets the key players know that no matter how bad they play they still get a game and the younger players know no matter how well they train they have next to no chance of playing. Great for morale that

How well are those young players training?

Rightly or wrongly that is Mcdermott's way.We have played far worse than this, and for longer periods over the last two years and the coach has stood by his players.Its hard to argue against it really when the net result is 2 super league wins.

I personally do get the impression that the likes of Singleton and Sutcliffe are thought of very highly by the coaching team simply by the fact that they are continualy picked in the matchday squad even if they havnt had much game time yet.They will get their chance IMO, but it is not going to be on the back of squad rotation.

I can sort of see what you are saying but it doesn't always happen. Injury on the wing and a below average Aussie is used there, when he is injured we move our quality centre there, the centre position is used up by SR. Wards injury hasn't really lead to a chance for the youngsters, hardaker injured again our centre is shifted there. So far JP missing hasn't lead to singleton getting a shot there. You could also argue that after the knee injury if JP had been rested he might not be missing now. Also mcshane it appears is only allowed one error, as soon as that happens he is pulled off never to be seen again.
Now not trusting the youth players may be down to them not being up to the job NO ONE on here knows for definate either way.
Regarding your last point regarding quality players need to play regardless I agree and disagree!

The odd off game I don't think players should be dropped
For but constant under performance then for me they need a rest to re charge either physically or mentally

Calm dear dears!

We've played 13 games
- 9 vs top 8 teams
- 2 of remaining 4 took place before WCC and we needed to go full strength to prepare for that.
- 1 vs HKR away, where Wire and Saints (twice) have lost this year.

We've managed to put ourselves in a much stronger league position than in previous years when we ended up playing catch up from around 8th place.


We've got 14 games yet to play
- only 6 of them are against top 8 teams.
- that'll be only 4 from 12 after games vs Wigan and Hull coming up next.
- leaving 8 more suitable games.

Wigan have won the League twice, the Challenge Cup and the Grand Final in the last four years.

Awake yet?

But what silverware do Wigan have?

There has been nothing wrong with the Leeds morale or team spirit. In fact by sticking with the same core players they have built a unique winning ethos. Any young player who wants to play for the Champions has to learn patience and mental toughness which if they are good enough the club will repay with loyalty to the player.

We had games ast London ,Salord and Cas at home to rotate 1 or 2 players IRRESPECTIVE of form its the plan the Coach and Skipper openly declared pre-season and we had chances to get Singleton and co more gametime plus a chance for a young winger/FB to get some gametime in.
We learn nothing sticking with the same 17 against teams we should and often beat in 2nd gear and i'm not saying we should rest 5/6 at once either.
JP and Kylie as good as they've been are entering their twighlight years so to keep putting them both in the team and in JP's case doing 60mins+ week in week out will hasten their retirements and imo leave us needing 2 frontline FR's when both eventually do call it a day and we are left with Moore 34+ and kirke 34+ and then younger forwards like Singleton ,Baldwinson et al still way short of experience IF they remain with us.
Now even worse should we get hit with 3/4 injuries at once to the FR/BR they'll again have to come in pretty cold and under pressure which imo can easily be avoided by giving them stints when clear chances arise.
We've done great over the years using those approaches and like i said the Coach has done a great job with the young back-line and to be fair IF he's still here he'll have to over-see the biggest turnover of players since Powell so why be so reluctant to do what he said he intended to do anyway??
As for talk of being ready or loan spells etc just because they aren't on loan doesn't mean they aren't ready the ones often mentioned are clearly above the u19 level at which they are playing and giving them short spells in the 1st team will at worst give us a better indication of who to keep and where to recruit.
You don't have to be a SL winning Coach to see what's just around the corner re-this excellent crop of home grown lads/signings with their imminent/future retirements ,slow down etc etc.
As for Sinfield and Mcguire for me Mags should have be rested/benched already but now should stay at 7 for now,Sinfield back at 13 whilst Ward is out and Burrow on the bench with Sutcliffe given the HB role for a couple of games.
IF Mags still performs as bad then Burrow comes on at 7 and Mcshane stays at 9 or if Sutcliffe suffers we can revert back it's forward planning imo of course i doubt it will happen against Wigan and Hull but we have chance after that where the fixtures are not as intense and after the Exiles game aswell.

I could not have put it all better myself: I absolutely concur.

Fair play to the Coach great to see Singleton and Sutcliffe get plenty of minutes today i hope they remain in the 17 for the foreseeable future and lets hope we can build on their experience with maybe 1 or 2 more getting game time down the line.

Thought the halves were myself against Wigan. Their decision making is all over the place ATM.

I'd like to see Sutcliffe at 6 next week Mcshane start at 9 with Sinfield back at 13 and either Mags/RB at 7 with other on the bench.

Don't know about Sutcliffe at 6 mate but defo start McShane, Burrow on the bench and Sinny back at loose.

Will be interesting to see Watkins tackle count again this week. Has there ever been a centre asked to defend as centrally as he is being asked to at the moment?

Good point TVOC thought he tackled like a machine in the middle.

The combination of McGuire, Burrow and Sinfield has been very, very good for Leeds.

There is no space for sentiment in sport however, and it needs freshening up. The better teams have figured out that you need to fly up on Sinfield and McGuire to pressure them into errors, while if you just hold your line against Burrow he will have nowhere to go.

Sutcliffe needs to get a run of games as a pivot, and McShane needs to see more time at hooker. That means two out of the three above have to miss out, and it's McGuire and Burrow for me.

Sadly, I don't think either Hetherington or McDermott will be able to put personal loyalty aside to make the hard decisions. They'll just keep doling out contracts until these players make the decisions themselves to call time on their careers.