It was Anthony Laffranchi that scored but what would be gained if I pointed that out. Changes nothing so I won't even mention it.

Agreed in normal speed Hardaker got what he deserved and had the video referee not been present I'd have expected the try to be awarded but I'll ask again, if the ball touches the line with Hardaker still in contact and never having lost contact has he grounded the ball in goal? It's no different IMO to the recent Bailey score at Odsal which was given.

The line belongs to the in-goal area and for a try to be scored it only has to touch any part of it, is it any different when a defender is trying to clear his line? I didn't think it was but as I always say in these situations I've never studied the rules in my life, preferring instead to concentrate only on the current refereeing interpretations - that is when they act with consistency.

In the past we've had players such as Webb inadvertently touching the ball down behind the line at the JJB stadium but because he was viewed by the video referee as trying to knock the ball dead it's been ruled as play-on and a Wigan score as they followed up ..... to the point now where had let's say for arguments sake Hardaker fallen over in goal with no St Helens player in the Leeds half of the field, the ball inadvertently ie not intentionally hitting the ground after the player slips on the greasy surface that ball is now being deemed a deliberate grounding in-goal resulting in a drop out re-start. I doubt the rules covering these examples had been re-written in the intervening period - but the referee's interpretation of events has changed.

I've tweeted the refs for you... Although its a bit of a shorthand version.

I personally thought it was a tough decision on Hardaker. Thought it should of still been a drop out. However He should of played saftey first.

Thought You looked tired last night although Delaney was outstanding considering.

And we did!

I don`t buy into this we said the same thing the past 2 years statement.
Whilst we might well have said it the fact remains we were poor again last night as we were the week before.
We have been moaning about our performances over the last few years now.
It is a miracle we turn up for 4 or 5 games at the end of the season and all is forgotten.
Don`t get me wrong I love winning the GF but another year on and we are no better in the weekly rounds.
The so called playmakers are doing nothing whatsoever.
Even the Worlds Best Player is not converting all his kicks which was his strong point, not sure he has made a break yet this year either. and as for the Worlds Best Winger well I bet the Ozzies are shatting themselves at the thought.
Burrow has been found out so why drop McShane?
At best Burrow should be on the bench.
Put Sinfield back in at LF and let Sutcliffe have a run at SO.
McGuire is your typical "i used to be good" and now I am nowhere near that standard so I will get niggly to cover up my deficiencies.
Vickery tried his best but has no pace and no grunt so why play him.
At least Keinhorst has a little more pace and can tackle well enough.
Delaney with a crocked shoulder and clearly unfit was our best forward which says something.
JJB does the odd good thing but his defence was poor for a so called Engalnd International.
Roll on Wigan on Sunday.

I think Barrie McD said something that may be relevant yesterday, he said that at the start of his career he'd played for Oldham where the crowd appreciated you if you played your heart out for 80 mins, it didn't matter if they lost only that you had given them 100%.

Then he went to Wigan where the only important thing was that you annihilated the opposition every week, they didn't care about effort as long as you had a clear 20 point margin or more at the final whistle.

He also said that when he gets "supporters" giving him an earful about how everything is wrong and they know exactly what they'd do if they were in charge he will look them in the eye, nod as if interested, then thank them for their opinion and walk away without giving it a second thought.



I think that some Leeds supporters would make ace Wigan supporters.

I would never boo my team or the coach but you don't have to love the coach to support your team or have an opinion on his ability.I don't rate him and think the success we have enjoyed in recent seasons are the fruit of previous coaches .his continued policy of keeping playing his favourites regardless of form will lead to a fractured dressing room if it isn't already.

Some of our senior players have earned the right to have time to play themselves back to form rather than being dropped, but I don't know how he can look at the last month or so of play and decide "you know what, the problem is McShane".

Sutcliffe appeared to be played as a prop last night.

I agree

Wigan fan here so no interest other than hoping you'd both lose



As soon as it happened I said that although in the field of play initially the ball touches the Line whilst Hardaker is in possession.
For me that is dead in goal, Drop out.
Would like to hear Gansons explanaition of this as for me it's one fo the strangest I've seen (One of the worst I saw was the Jack Hughes No Try at your place last year, can't believe it was ruled out?).

This must be the 20th season running where I've heard that.

Referring AGAIN to what Barrie McD said yesterday, he said that playing at Leeds is about the whole package, its the most professional setup that he has experienced anywhere in RL and that the only reason he signed for us when he was "sacked" by Wigan is that he loved coming to Leeds as an opposition player because it was patently obvious how professional the whole package deal was, everything from the guy who looks after the kit to the people who make the breakfasts at the training ground etc etc etc, was done with professionalism - the bloke who has the label of "first team coach" is only a small part of the package.

The CEO has provided his coach with a barely adequate 1st grade squad - which I imagine to be a country mile below the cap - and that quality rich, numerically poor squad is reduced still further once it passes through the coach's own filtration system - which historically has highlighted 1st grade contracted players that will unfortunately need to play their rugby away from Headingley.

A few injuries - only to be expected in RL - and it's down to the bare bones with some players stretched to breaking point and still asked and expected to turn out and perform. There is virtually no competition for places at Headingley and sub standard showings can be virtually ignored with a shrug of the shoulders (if injuries still allow a shrug) safe in the knowledge there's no trusted alternative so selection the following week is a formality when you're part of the 'in crowd.'

tvoc, could you please let us know how many players each club have used in their first team this season, highlighting the number of debuts per club as well so we can see how our squad usage compares to other clubs?

Go on, you know you want to.....

Nope you've lost me there !! Although one wonders why he was dropped

The bench spot that McShane would have had was taken by Sutcliffe...

Quote ="batleyrhino"tvoc, could you please let us know how many players each club have used in their first team this season, highlighting the number of debuts per club as well so we can see how our squad usage compares to other clubs? Go on, you know you want to.....'" Wigan have used 27 wigan.rlfans.com/readarticle.php?article_id=1818

Quote ="batleyrhino"tvoc, could you please let us know how many players each club have used in their first team this season, highlighting the number of debuts per club as well so we can see how our squad usage compares to other clubs? Go on, you know you want to.....'" Wigan have used 27 wigan.rlfans.com/readarticle.php?article_id=1818

IIRC Jack Hughes scored what appeared to be a perfectly legitimate try and the only explanation I could come up with at the time was that Jeff Lima had dropped the ball for the opening try and the Hughes no try ruling was some form of belated square up from Ian Smith - you know like game-day referees sometimes do when they've cocked it up.

Before then I never realised video referees were in collusion to that extent. 12-4 to Wigan at that stage and thankfully for the integrity of the sport I don't think it had much of a bearing on the final mullering.

The incident last night with the teams locked at 16 all - the call could have been a momentum shifter.

You have used the expression "barely adequate" a few times now, what do you define as barely adequate and how much cap space do we have left?

Yes you might be right.
First receiver and run it in forgot your ball handling skills and help out the forwards.
I actually thought he was trying to give him the Stevie Ward role.
IMO he was needed as a halfback not a forward last night.

There are many things I still want to do (but sadly won't) ..... unfortunately that isn't high on the list. I know a straight-forward way to find the numbers each team have used (at least in the regular rounds, ie excluding the Challenge Cup) but identifying which of those have also made their 1st grade debuts would take much more effort and the truth is I'm a lazy b[iastar[/id at heart.

Don't get me wrong there was obviously a refereeing error with the Lima one however I just can't believe they would "Even" it up. However given the lack of accountability for decisions under Cummings I'm not amazed there was nothing more come out of it. And in terms of last night's call I agree and believe it had a much bigger bearing on the final outcome than the Hughes one.

However The Hughes one was an absolute shocker and I just found it strange last year that nothing more was ever made of it i.e. an explanation sought for and reply given.
I was just hoping that in this instance someone gets to the bottom of it and provides an acceptable answer.
Who was the Video Ref last night?
I wonder if Steve ganson will seek an answer for the decision from them?

I believe Steve Ganson himself was the video ref as I saw him walk across the pitch towards the west side of the south stand.

Hence the little laugh



I wonder if he'll hold himself to account?

He was the VR.

To me it wasn't a try...but I wasn't surprised when it was given.

IMO the VR should only be used in cup games and play offs. Regular league rounds where only 2 games have the VR doesn't seem right, but I presume for all clubs (bar Leeds) the cost is prohibitive

So we're stuck with decisions like last night

Another alternative is the Ref makes a decision, and then asks if the VR agrees....like in Union