Nonsense. I'm a Wire fan and I [ido[/i want the play-offs to revert to top five, but the reasons are obvious in the poor crowds for the top eight, nowt to do with Leeds. In fact, your performance last night ( very high quality it was, too ) did Wire a favour. Last year, hardly anyone ( especially Pies ) gave you credit for a fine performance when you beat us in the semi. The talk was all about 'Wire bottling it '. This year you are (rightfully) getting the credit and even Pies are acknowledging that losing a semi can be down to the performance of the opposition, not just your own team having a poor day.

Try telling that to Shaun Wane. Everytime Wigan lose it appears it's down to them under-performing first and foremost and only because the opposition were better as a belated after-thought. Resting Tomkins for the final was genius.

Nice work agent Harris.

McDermott's qualities as a coach (when viewed from the outside) should be assessed by looking at =#0000BFall his coaching career as a whole. By looking at the structures out on the field. Leeds were clueless near the Wigan line, their one try coming from a turnover after Sinfield yet again had charged out of the defensive line making a hero play. Thank gawd for once Watkins backed his skipper by doing the same to scoop up a poor Wigan pass and go the length. The reason Sinfield was taking the two was probably because two was going to be better than nothing.

Lets not forget that this is a Champion set of players McDermott gets to work with and we have the priviledge to support. I'm sure McDermott counts his blessings every day - as he sits in a corner somewhere struggling to solve the problem of an uncomfortable shoe.

Of course it was, and as it turned out that was smart play. The Wigan defence was always going to be difficult to break down and even more so without McGuire, so accumulating points was the smart call. Wigan may well have done the same, but by the time that opportunity came they were 11 points down.

As for Sinfield charging out of the line, he did, but he wasn't the only one and that was our biggest chance of success last night, and it knocked Wigan off their game. We got our reward on that try because we didn't stand back and give Wigan all the time in the world to tear us to pieces. That pass went behind the man because Finch wasn't give any time at all. Of course there's an element of luck to that try, but Wigan scoring only 2 tries on the night suggests that on balance it was the right tactic.

Value for money on season tickets should not be judged on how many wins we get during the qualifying competition. I bet Wigan would give up their plate for a crack at the one that matters next week.

The season ticket gives practically zero value for money for the WCC, the Challenge Cup (bar a home fixture in the 4th round) and the Play-Offs. With clubs increasingly tossing it off during the Regular Rounds it surely calls in to question why anyone - except those that always have and always will - would bother to make the required investment?

Quite.

As I'm not anticipating any changes to the ridiculous play-off format along with the regular round tossing it off with the likelihood of the 4 same teams in the semi finals again next season - my attendances at any SL games will once again be extremely limited.

My focus will be on attending the World Cup games instead - as many as possible.

Maybe not wins but a competetive team on a weekly basis would suffice and should odd blip aside be a given imo.

It saddens me to have to admit this is the case, the ability to pressurise and break down defences is a quality rarely seen in recent Leeds performances



Given it only allows entry to the qualifying competition (the challenge cup freebies are gone and the other benefits can be purchased for the price of one ticket which includes one free ticket) then the performances in the qualifying competition are the only judge of value for me, the conclusion for me is not to purchase

Were you there alst night Hopie i'm sure i saw you in the crowd on Sky?

How typical of you that on a night when you should be celebrating a wonderful victory you choose to pour out your negative opinions of our coach yet again. How sad. Classic tvoc

To maintain your predjudiced viewpoint, and I guess to avoid having to admit his fine coaching achievements at Leeds, you want to include his coaching record as a whole because this might give some irrelevant stat on how his number of wins when at London brings down the average.

You mention structures as though they are the B and end of it and as if you have experience of coaching structures. Leeds last night beat the team who play the most structured game in SL. We completely dominated the league leaders for all the first half and only a woeful runs of decisions by the referee allowed Wigan back into the game. The over structured Wigan side were unable to play once our dominant defence had ruined their structured plays. This Leeds side have been successful because we have had the key skillful individual players capable of playing a non structured game when needed.

Brian McD had prepared the team well for last night with a simple and very good game plan - you could even say it was a well "structured" game plan. Their key players were targeted and a rush very phyisical defence was evident. We had a clear kicking plan and we went for points whenever we got the chance.

It is true we have a Champion set of players but it is also true we have a Champion coach - talk to the players if you still don't believe it.

Big Mac had to work the players harder in pre-season than the other teams in order to peak for the WCC. Mission achieved. After the WCC, having peaked very early in the season, it was to be expected that the team would have a flat or below par spell. No coach will keep up all season the high intensity training and mentality needed for knock out rugby. That does not mean they plan to go out and take it easy. This team are winners and want to win every game. BM then had to plan to get the team to peak for the CC and then again for the playoffs. In all three targets he has been successful at getting them mentally and physically ready with game plans to suit the occassion.

I am not blind to the fact that we have been woeful in many games this year, but as you say this is a Champion set of players who know very well how to defend, as evidenced on all the big occassions. So to blame the coach and say they lack "structure" when the players let him and themselves down shows a complete lack of understanding of what is under the coaches comtrol once the players are out on the field.

Much has been said about BM's team selections and substitutions. I too have sometimes been puzzled but no reason to call for the coaches head. We are not privy to what happenes on the training field or when a younster is really ready for SL. BM kept the faith with his "Champion" side when the going was tough. He allowed them to play through the trough and refind their form without dropping them. His first choice players once again have repaid him with 100% effort when it mattered.

So don't buy one then.. But somehow I get the feeling you don't anyway.

Got to say some very valid points JC but posting at the particular time of those inept SL performances those views of mine still stand as do the credit for last night ,CC and ,WCC indeed those great success' prove beyond doubt that ALL are capable of much much better than the poor games we've witnessed.

Thank you rhinoms, you always have the grace to consider another point of view.

What makes you think I weren't celebrating?

I'll comment after most games good and bad and I'm sure if you tried hard enough you could find some positive posts also. Others on here often become conspicuous only by their absence at difficult times. I'm not one of those types though so I'm afraid you'll have to take the rough with the smooth.



The relevance of stats is down to the individuals interpretation of them. I cannot be held responsible for the conclusions others draw from those I present.



Yes, I think my boss is wonderful too. Most people do if they want to maintain or improve their status within an organisation. Those that don't tend to have to find employment elsewhere. Perhaps we'll eventually get to hear their true feelings but I doubt now would be the best time for that.

Would love to chat further but the Vulcan is airborn as we speak and I'm heading off to see her over RAF Waddington or RAF Scampton shortly - favouring Scampton I think - so will have to catch you later. I hope you understand.

Of course, I love a semi final - first non challenge cup game I attended since April though
Great win, tense all the way, noisy fans and even terrible decisions didnt cost us - well worth the entrance fee

Sadly the bulk of the revenue comes from the regular season where punters - especially corporate want to see top class rugby for their money. As this season has shown winning the GF is no guarantee of retaining your crowd. If the crowds continue to fall then you will struggle to fund a team capable of winning the GF.

How low do you think the crowds need to be for the club not to be able to afford a salary cap level squad?

As a some time sporting corporate, BTW, the idea of "top class rugby" or whichever sport is pretty much irrelevant. The profile of the team means far more, and that comes from trophies.

He's entered 6 comps, reached 4 finals and finished 5th twice

If Lewis Hamilton starts the Grand Prix from fifth on the grid and goes on to win, do you remember the qualifying or the finish?

..........well played Richie, well played, Although GP qualifying isn't really a competition, it's qualification only, where as super league regular rounds are (well at least meant to be) a full competition that includes qualification for the play offs.

Yep. The profile of the team and as long as the corporates "have a good time" in decent facilities top class rugby is irrelevant.

WCC? There are four "cups" available



Well Leeds made both finals last year and despite not spending the whole cap only made a small profit, did regular season attendances fall? how about this year?

Don't read too much into a single year's accounts, particularly for business that doesn't carry a prime aim of making a profit.