Hetherington said after the embarrassing home capitulation to Wigan that it's not a coaching issue.

In the same article he also posed the question as to whether this squad had run it's course but he was careful not to answer it himself at the time. Hasn't he since said only Webb would be leaving?

Some overhaul that was.

Leuluai, Hauraki, McShane and Moore out. Achurch, Lunt, Taylor and Walmlsley in. Griffin & Taylor starting props, JP off the bench after 15 minutes with Bailey. JJB, Delaney & Clarkson to start in SR, with Achurch coming off the bench. Walmlsey & Kirke to force the competition, Ablett to move into the centres permanently with Keinhorst forcing the competition. Chisholm to get a chance on the right wing ahead of the powderpuff BJB.

Rhinos 2013:

1. Hardaker
2. Jones-Bishop
3. Watkins
4. Ablett
5. Hall
6. McGuire
7. Burrow
8. Taylor
9. Lunt
10. Peacock
11. Jones-Buchanan
12. Achurch
13. Sinfield
14. Ward
15. Delaney
16. Bailey
17. Kirke
18. Clarkson
19. Walmsley
20. Griffin

That was the "official" line at the time yes mate but i'm hoping we have a more meaningfull backlash ala when Daryl Powell had his big clear-out of the past it and not good enough.

When did we sign Lunt ,Taylor and Walmsley Tykes/Rhinos no1?
FWIW i'd take Taylor and Walmsley but would pick Mcshane over Lunt every day of the week.

would that be the same chisholm who is now a leeds carnegie player?

According to the YEP it's only a loan deal though!

it's a dual reg is what I heard?

All strongly linked to us from what I've heard. Lunt's in depending on a final assessment of McShane's attitude & progression, we're leading the race to get Taylor in, and are still in contact with Walmlsey. ST & AW are, potentially, two of the best British forwards for the next decade. We should be going after them.

Will somebody please call an ambulance - urgent assistance required in Nantwich, Cheshire.

Saucer of milk for TVOC!!

That's pretty much my view too.
I think the players are under performing too often and I think it's at least partly due to the players thinking they can pull out a good performance when needed or pull back a game that's slipping away from them. At their peak they could but few are at their peak now. I still think the majority of the squad are good enough, just not quite as good as they used to be. Peacock being a good example. When hes on form he's still one of the best props in the league but the games and time within those games he is on form is dwindling.
I don't think the coaching team are as bad as some people make out but there have been some baffling decisions at times such as not rotating the pack during the season and some strange substitutions.
I also think we are sufferring slightly from a "not as good" academy pool a few years ago which has meant we've been unable to adequately plan the succession to the likes of Peacock, Leuluai, Sinfield etc hopefully that might be starting to rectify itself a little with the likes of Singleton, Ward, Keinhorst, Hood etc coming through. Plus I think a full season for the likes of Watkins, BJB and Hardaker will be great for their future development too.

The squad should have been improved when Leeds were at their best five years ago, instead players left and were not adequately replaced. As such Leeds were overtaken and now we need to improve to escape falling behind both further from those at the top and more teams in total. The attitude and structure have also fallen away. Both squad and coach are done on the cheap, no wonder crowds fall and when the players rarely turn up I make the same decision. Better coaching and a shake up in the players dept are required, but our usual policy is to wait til season end to assess the squad and (in)conveniently by then we often find the best business has been done.

Did you miss the end results of the seasons played since that point five years ago?

We signed Peacock & Donald in 2006, Webb & Leuluai in 2007, Buderus & Eastwood in 2009. Along with the likes of Hall, Smith, Ablett all developing well over that time I don't think that's too bad to go alongside the old guard of Senior, McGuire, Burrow, Diskin, JJB & Sinfield.

I think Him's assessment is right regarding players deciding which games they are up for, and assuming they can turn it on when they want.

IMO that is also directly linked to the coaching - a coach with authority would not allow that to happen, and would make plain his unhappiness by dropping players who are simply turning up. There's no way McDermott could afford to accept some of the performances on his watch, but he's shown little ability to make the team turn it around on his schedule.

In any event I thought GH was making a pretty direct challenge to the squad - prove its not the coaching or your own ability, which is obviously what they were telling him. As it is, GH needs to plan ahead now, not so much for next season (the chances of more than one or two squad changes at this time of year are small) but the next.

Unless we win the GF, I actually think (and I'm probably in a minority here) that it might do some people at the club a lot of good if we get beaten. Getting smashed in a Play Off lacking only McGuire would send a clear message to everyone at the club.

I'd still prefer us to repeat last year mind you....

I dont think you are in the minority.Its become fairly clear over the last 2 seasons that this squad has decided that it only needs to perform to its optimum level when the big games come round and can 'coast' through the rest of the games.

Winning from 5th last year, as great as it was at the time , will have only made the players more comfortable with this.And how can you really argue? but if we had been blasted out of the play offs early last year, can you imagine the backlash on the terraces this season with some of the dross that has been dished out at times?

resident doomsday monger William Eve, although annoying at times with his constant ramblings about super league whipping boys and how the play off system is a joke is right in that Leeds have bought into the idea that anywhere 6 or above will do and the rest of the season is just a cruise and that cannot be good on all levels.Even playing our current mediocre levels we very nearly finished 4th which does not say very much for the league as a whole and obviously the squad has bought into that.The play off system needs changing but thats a different topic.

For me, If we repeat last seasons wonderful playoff run then fantastic, but i fully expect us to fall short in week 2 or 3 and then we will really see what GH intentions are moving into next season if things do remain the same,Season ticket sales fall and rightly or wrongly fans start showing their discontent,which they will.

Interesting times ahead...

GH's intentions are the same as every other CEO of a SL club - exceed your fans expectations while spending as little as possible to do so. If people are prepared to buy season tickets and merchandise no matter how the team performs, then why change?

Leeds are turning into the Arsenal of SL.

one thing that might help for next season is if sinfield,burrow,mcguire and jjb opt against playing internationals this year
this will allow our most important players to have their first real off season in years so return fully refreshed and ready for one more consistant season
the younger players could still do england duty and learn from the experience but the older guys will gain nothing from flogging the likes of france and wales

I doubt they'll need to opt out as I doubt they'll be picked.

As a fan who only gets to go to 4 or 5 games a year, the only turn up for certain games works ok for me (ignoring my trip to Odsal at eater

)Its obviously not the same for season ticket holders, and the club has got to get the balance right, between winning things (are therefore getting bankdwagoner types), and playing well enough to get good crowds.

I would prefer a successful club that saves its best performances for the end of the season. We are an aging squad, and many of its key components are past their peak. We can't expect them to perform week in week out and then have enough gas left in the tank come the business end, even at their peak they only managed this once or twice. I would suggest that with the tools available to the club, this is actually a good approach and demonstrates good leadership from GH, its something we've been doing for a few years now.

However, I still don't think we are getting the best out of our players, and I think that this comes down to the coaching team in the majority. We seem to lack structure in both attack and defence. We seem to make some bizarre decisions on a game day from the stands. We look miles behind our rivals in how we play the game. At our peak we relied on some powerful line breakers, and support around them.
We now don't have the linebreakers, but our game plan remains pretty much the same
We also had pretty brutal defence which was pretty stingy. That seems to have evapourated

To be fair i don't think we've ever been fast starters in games even going back to the beginning of this last decade of success. We didn't really win games from showing more intensity or fight than the oppostion, more simply by being better skill wise and tactically. With McDermott not being as good as Tony Smith the area of tactically has dropped dramacitally especially in defence, and the improvement of the likes of Wigan, Warrington, Catalans compared to when Saints were the only real competition we had means we can't get away with easing into games and not hitting top gear until 30-40 mins at best. So many teams focus so strongly on the first 20 mins nowadays that we always seem to be playing catch up in a lot of games.

Yet again we played like we were relying so heavily on certain players again (Sinfield, Burrow, Peacock, JJB, McGuire when fit), it's almost like school level rugby when you get a few lads taking on all the responsibilty and the others at times seem to be making up the numbers or waiting on the main guys to do something. The only way you can beat the better teams is from at least 10-12 of your starting 17 standing up to be counted. I know every team has its key men but usually they should have a strong willing and ready supporting cast,

Personally i said earlier in the year that i've seen enough reoccuring flaws in McDermott's coaching that i don't ever see him being able to get us into a top 2 position however long he's at the club and whoever he manages to sign and that 3rd will probably be the best we could reach under him. However GH is a big supporter of his, probably more so than any over coach Leeds have had in his period at the club so he'll definately be here in 2013 and the best we can hope for is a new face added to the coaching staff that will improve things especially defensively.

Completely agree, we need putting out of our misery, and there's a very realistic possibility that Wakefield could do this. The back end of this season gives me the same vibes as the back end of 2010, which ultimately led to McClennan leaving. Something's not right, but exactly what that is remains unknown. I don't think simply changing the coach (to who?) will be the answer, stinks of player power to me

Hauraki & Griffin were very poor yesterday, Hauraki is not super league standard and Griffin despite starting ok for Leeds now has no impact on the game when he comes on.

On the other hand Peacock was the best player on the pitch yesterday.

Now I'm no statto, but if you look back at where we have finished over the period from 2007 to now, and compare the number of games won during the regular season, and the number of points conceded, it becomes glaringly obvious that it's not the number of points you score so much as the number of points you concede that determines league placing. In '07, '08 and '09 we conceded less than 500 point per season at between 15 and 18 per game average, and finished either top or second. in '10, '11 and this season, we conceded over 550 points per season (this year 662) and averaged between 21 and 25 per season. In each of these years our points for ranges from 27 to 32 so we are scoring enough points.

I have major reservations about how we defend, both tactially and structurally, and this is at the heart of our issues in terms of consistency of performance. We simply don't defend well enough for long enough, and this is ruthlessly exposed by the better teams on a consistent basis.

Since 2009 our league performances have regressed with each year defensively, and whilst we have scored more points this season than in any since '08, we are leaving ourselves with a mountain to climb by treating the regular league season with disdain. If the players and coaching team remain the same for next year, we must arrest this slide and improve defensively by a significant margin to be "truely" competitive, rather than sit at the top of the "also ran" section of SL for the regular rounds.

From what Ive been told and seen at yesterdays game your bang on, the senior players in the team dont pay any attention to what the coach says young liam hood looked desperate to get on stood on the sideline waving a bit of paper with the number of player who the coach wanted to take off and was ignored 3 times that spoke volumes to me I know that players hate being subbed but surely the coach should determine the rotations not the players to me this begs the question why the players arnt interested in what the coach wants maybe they feel he is out of his depth and doesnt make any sense in what he is coaching them. Didnt Bluey say something about player power when he resigned or am I imagining that?
In public they all praise Brian but in private I will wager its a different matter