....and this is the point.

If you had a Fiesta that drove like a Fiesta you'd be happy but if you had a Ferrari that drove like a Fiesta you'd have it in the garage like a shot.

It's not the Peacock is under-performing - its that he's under-performing by his very high standards.

I agree with Exeter. JP is not an impact prop and has always achieved his stats with hard slog and great stamina and is best used with plenty of game time. Yes he has slowed down since his op but I commented long before this that he had become very slow at getting up to play the ball so not much new there.

Yes he should get some rest time on the bench but he still made 3 times the metres of Bailey and more than Griffin and Moore added together and only one less tackle than those two added together. So if he is rested for too long who else will do the work?

JP has made the 12th most carries in SL this year (one place behind Sam Tomkins) with not too many props above him young or old! He is 17th best metre maker in SL and 25th best tackler and 6th best offloader (equal with Sinfield) just 4 less than Lauitiiti

He may not be as dynamic as he once was but his overall contribution makes him still a key player for Leeds with none of the other forwards challenging his efforts with the exception of Delaney.

I have said it before and will repeat it, and honestly mate this is nothing personal on you. But your stats that you use are a bag of poop.

Who gives a toss who has made the most number of carries in super league? and indeed unless it is specific to the prop and back row position, number of metres is also a poop stat on it's own.

Peacocks stats, as good as he is for us, pale into insignificance when compared to Lynch as an example. But it isn't just about the stats.

I would rather Peacock halfed the amount of carries that he makes in a match, and produce more metres per carry instead, and then be fit enough to not miss important tackles near the line or at marker, when his feet are so tired he can not move.

I happen to think Peacock can still produce for a while yet, but not on repeating his current workloads. You make comparisons to his team mates work rate, but IMO it's because of his work rate and his team mates such high opininon of him that they continually give the ball to him at the expense of others. Which in turn actually reduces the effect that Peacock is having on a game.

You make too many judgements based on stats. You are a puzzle.

On JP's offloads for instance what percentage have been effective and how many have just been slung out of the back door?

He has changed. Gone from a Paul Anderson type barnstormer to a Andy Lynch metre making machine.

As usual you miss the point. The stats show that JP is far from finished and is still making a big all round contribution... bigger than most of the other forwards despite being well past his prime

Not so my friend. I quote the stats to back up my judgement. Nothing puzzling about you though BB.....I guess you disliked the stat that showed JP made 3 times the metres of your hero RB in the last match...eh!



JP has made 34 offloads for Leeds so far this season equal with Sinfield. So you tell me how many of these have been ineffective? Something you are unable do I guess. Because to justify your allegation you would have to prove it with a stat. But if you do decide to try and back up your judgement for once with fact then along the way you might like to tell how many of Mr Bailey's total of 3 offloads have been effective and compare it with JP's

Allegation or question?

At least one of Bailey's offloads was pretty effective as it presented a try on a plate for Ablett at the Stoop recently. More than just an offload it also qualified as an assist.

Peacock has no assists so far this season while both trail the ball handling prop genius that is Kylie Leuluai.

Thank you. That is what it is.

Try it......

:1ayxqoe5

Don't be modest about it either.



You were right about Delaney, despite the opprobrium from others about how he should kept at centre and how the paid coach [u:1ayxqoe5[ualways[/u knows better than 'mere southstander contributors'.

Modesty? What's that?



I do walk a higher path.

The correct judgement I made about Delaney was based on what my eyes saw and not once did they cross reference any form of stats.

Classic BB

You mean judgement that cannot be supported by facts/stats?

Statistics - The practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities.

The impact and performance of the player can not be analysed using raw numerical data alone. On this basis, Lee Smith is a better player than Kevin Sinfield becuase he's made fewer errors. and Rob Burrow is a better hooker than Shaun Lunt because he has made more meters.

Peacock works his socks off for the team and always puts the effort in, however his ability is diminishing, as expected with age. I think the reason we have made so much noise about it is because his performaces are below our expectations of him, but he is still a great player and probably still our best prop.

I arrive at judgements via my own personal thought process.

Amazing isn't it.

The important stat is not Peacock's metres or carries, but his metres per carry. It's all well and good if he makes 2 carries per set, and comes out ahead on metres of those that make 1 carry per set, but having a player on the pitch making more metres per carry would advance the team's total metres as opposed to JP's.

Our current metres per carry (taken from SL Official site):

Kylie Leuluai: 7.74
Carl Ablett: 7.45
Richard Moore: 7.37
Darrel Griffin: 7.17
Jamie Jones-Buchanan: 7.16
Ian Kirke: 6.92
Brett Delaney: 6.80
Weller Hauraki: 6.41
Jamie Peacock: 6.15
Ryan Bailey: 5.86
Chris Clarkson: 5.52

Someone needs to start running a stat for the average time between the tackle being completed and the ball being back in play. See where he is on that one.

Peacock would definitely be top of meters made running backwards!! No doubts about that!

Also, here's the defense stats from the forwards, of tackles per miss.

Ian Kirke: 26.4
Ryan Bailey: 24.8
Darrell Griffin: 24.8
Kylie Leuluai: 24.3
Jamie Peacock: 23.5
Richard Moore: 23.1
Chris Clarkson: 22.3
Weller Hauraki: 21.1
Jamie Jones-Buchanan: 18.3
Brett Delaney: 17.6
Carl Ablett: 10.7
Kevin Sinfield: 10.3

so JP is our 9th most effective forward for metres, and 5th most effective in defense. I'd hope this would lay rest to any question against Leuluai & Griffin being starting props (1st & 4th most effective metres, 4th & 3rd most effective for tackles), and whether Kirke merits a place in the side. The statistically most average players are Hauraki & Clarkson.

defenCe

No he wouldn't.
Have you ever watched Delaney?

A very famous Mark Twain quotation springs to mind....'there are three types of lies. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

While Peacock has definitely not been the tower of strength he has through previous seasons, this lull in mid season isn't unusual. Let's see what he's got when it counts on Saturday before we throw him on the scrap heap.

And my god, can we give it a rest with the stats!

There's more to defence than tackles per miss.

And to draw conclusions on players' defensive abilities based on this one metric would be meaningless.

Some crucial parts of defence, for example positioning, you can't measure.

So, to sum up, it's impossible to assess players' defensive abilities with stats.

not entirely-for instance, Sinfield & Ablett being between 80% and 150% less effective tacklers than most other players would suggest that they are our defensive weak lnks. Similarly, Clarkson being between 1 and 1.5m per carry less effective going forward would suggest his use as an 'impact sub' isn't the most sensible course of action.

Could Ablett and Sinfield's effectiveness not also be explained by them trying to get involved in more tackles but missing them. The missed tackle may have slowed the attacker down enough for another defender to complete the tackle also. A missed tackle is not always a failure. The missed tackle/tackles stats could be explained by defenders only tackling what falls into their arms, letting others simply run straight past. A tackle never attempted is a tackle never missed.