I'm not been harsh, because I accept what you are saying that he has improved. But personally I just don't think that was too hard to do. He is nothing special, but hopefully after a year with us, next year may well prove to be a complete turnaround. He is certainly no Ali.

As I keep banging my head against the wall in frustration, Ali is not a impact prop, never has been, never will be, and is a complete waste for that role. He is a world beating wide running backrower on his day, the role Hauraki is supposed to play.

Hauraki does think that being marker is the same as resting.

Ali may NOT be an impact prop what i posted said he COULD do that role and has in the past so lets not go over old ground and he WOULD imo add more than Kirke in that role and he also has ST's panicking when he's around.

I'd say no to Ali. He didn't look fit enough in his last hit-out (Hudds?), although it would be fantastic for him to leave with another GF win under his belt. I've had few problems with Kirke, Clarkson or Hauraki in the play-offs so far.

What ! Even more than Smith to SO ?



I wouldn't really want to drop Delaney....Kirke is the target, but I [idid[/i want to convey how much I feel Ali should be given his 200th appearance swansong.

As Rhinoms has stated, he is [iat least[/i more than capable of emulating Kirke in the impact prop role (and that's an insult to his talent).

Hardaker has to stay. I'll apologise to BM on the other thread (when I find it), but I say well done to him for backing Hardaker when its counted the last two games. We need to have an attacking threat in the centres - Ablett/Delaney are solid but not much more. In any event the experience Hardaker will gain will be hugely important for him.

Just on Ablett, whilst watching the game I felt he was very nervous about physical contact with his head at times - both with and without the ball. Whilst understandable he needs to play with more conviction in the GF.

1) Brent Webb
23) Ben Jones-Bishop
27) Zak Hardaker
12) Carl Ablett
5) Ryan Hall
13) Kevin Sinfield (C)
6) Danny McGuire


Kylie Leuluai
9) Danny Buderus
10) Jamie Peacock
11) Jamie Jones-Buchanan
3) Brett Delaney
21) Chris Clarkson

7) Rob Burrow
14) Ali Lauiti'iti
16) Ryan Bailey
17) Ian Kirke

Pointless comment.

When he is playing badly, as he was earlier in the season then people want him out, and with reason.

When he is playing well he is still one of the best around so obviously people want him in the team.

Thats not being fickle thats just common sense.

Have you seen Hardakers tackling stats for the Warrington game, very impressive. 18 tackles made and not one missed. Considering this was a part of his game that some found worrying he was one of our best on Friday, the chase back to collar Briers could have been a defining moment. I think he'd be very unlucky to miss out after his input over the last two games. If he does miss out i'd rather Watkins came in as a straight swap rather than mess the team around to accommodate Lautiti.

Stick with a winning side for me. Ali's been great but I always feel he's playing on a knife-edge fitness-wise these days.

Yep - no room for sentiment if we are to win on Saturday.

I dunno, i think Ali's ball skills might come in useful against the Saints. Especially at the back end when theyare tiring

I was having a subtle dig at the posters who wanted him removing from the team in place of BJB from the wing to full back on the eve of the Wire game after Webb's performance against Giants.

Maybe that was too subtle for you to pick up on?

It screams fickle and being idiotic. To remove our regular full back from the team and then move a lad who has been doing a good job from his own spot. I don't argue with the fact that BJB is the natural evolution for the team. But the balance and continuity has to come in. No messing about with selection now, time for tinkering is over.

And how did Webb play? Well?

People making snap decisions - that is fickle.

Dont worry, I got the sarcasm in your words. Doesnt stop it being pointless though.

For the record, in my view, the natural replacement for Webb when he goes should be Smith. Assuming he sticks around of course.

Id go with the team that beat Wire.

Harsh on Ali, but I feel that Hauraki justifies the place on the bench for spare second row. He's been one of our most improved players of the last couple of months

Seeing as I was one of those calling for Webb to be moved aside - to both strengthen the team defensively and allow Ablett to come back into the side without losing Lauitiiti out of the 17 - I guess I'll have to defend my comments.

I'll start by saying (barring a five minute spell when he went missing for the high kick that lead to the King try and backed it up by firing a pass to the touch judge on the next set in attack) he had a good game on Friday. If he has another one on Saturday, I'll be equally pleased.

My call for him to be left out wasn't based solely on his performance in the Giants game (where he got pulled from the firing line in the later stages and stuck on the wing). IMO - and that's all it is - he's been defensively mediocre for most of the season. Too easy to turn inside out, getting himself caught in the line too often in goal-line defence, too slow to chase back if someone gets the outside on him, too uncertain under the high ball. Add in his deficiencies in being unable to pass the ball to his left without it going forward, and I reckoned keeping him in the side was too big a gamble for a game where Leeds needed to have everyone performing at 100% to be successful.

He stepped it up on Friday - the problem is, that performance was very much the exception to the norm for Brent Webb in 2011. The challenge now is to get him to repeat it in the heat of a Grand Final.

Where's your rugby acumen?

Are we in a time warp?

Smith is so far from selection it's un-true. No agendas or stories, just based on performances in the famous blue and amber.

Completely agree with this. It has been a bee in my bonnet for most of the second half of the season. Webb has looked suspect defensively. In the Wire game some of his defensive frailties were tested and others weren't, but he did his job. This would be definitely the wrong time to make any major changes, but we shall wait and see what Webb takes the field

Oh and the pass into the stands that went 3 yards forward was by far the worst I have seen.

St Helens v Leeds Rhinos 6pm (SKY)
Ref P Bentham TJ T Martin TJ J Child RR S Ganson RTJ C Sharrad VR B Thaler TK R Tennant MC I McGregor

I didnt say it would happen, just that out of the players currently at the club I would leave BJB on the wing and play Smith at FB when Webb has gone.

As for your selection comment. Currently McShane is in the same boat as Smith yet with Bud leaving I fully expect McShane to be our number 9 next year. Why when Webb leaves in a year (think that is right??) couldn't Smith be our new FB?

He has no problem tackling but its his defensive reads that let him down where he leaves a big gap every so often. Im not fussed anyway TBF. I think who ever plays will do a good job.

By the time Webb leaves Smith is likely to have already been gone for 12 months.

What has Smith produced this year which makes him the natural replacement for Brent Webb?

Weird.

Mac didn't even consider Smith for the FB spot against Giants, he played a sick Brent Webb, as we had 'no other options'

BJB will succeed in that role with how things stand at present. With other exciting prospects like Zak and Kallum stepping up (injuries permitting). Shows the future of our outside backs is very healthy.

Agree we have a good crop of young backs but disagree with your intimated positioning of them. For me you would go;
Smith
BJB
Watkins
Hardaker
Hall

Smith hasnt played this year in part cos I dont think Brain likes him but having watched Smith a few times in the academy he looks heavy and a little bored. That said, the guy has obvious talent. Going to RU was the worst thing he did. At that point he looked at awesome at FB.

Cringe alert.

Smith is out of favour, his performances that he is in control of have a massive bearing on that.

He does look dis-interested at times and doesn't look athletic. True.

So why have you penciled this case in as Webb's successor? On what basis? Form a few years ago?

This is 2011 and Lee Smith looks dated. He has been back long enough to sort himself out. I thought he would really nail a full pre-season this year and come back all guns blazing. This hasn't been the case.

I'm glad Mac is in charge of our selection policy and not you.

Smith needs to do exactly what Bloodbath's saying - work exceptionally hard in the off-season, sort himself out physically and then when picked play well enough to make it impossible for BM to drop him. Or leave if he's not up to that. He's not a big guy, or the fastest - but prior to leaving to RU he was solid in defence, had good footwork and made the most of what speed he did have.

I believe Smith can get back to where he was - but its up to him to get there, not BM to continually pick him just becasue of who he is/what he did in 2009.

Also agree with comments re Webb's performance against Warrington. For much of the game it was like watching Webb from a few years ago - especially his speed and footwork in returning kicks. If anything, BJB at times looked a bit cumbersome in comparison. In fact of the back three, if looking at where to put long kicks against Leeds, they'd all go BJB's way.