It doesn't. And Leeds will spend up to the cap limit next year. How they spend it is another issue completely.

I feel Leeds need a centre for Senior, a prop (Griffin) a second rower if Lauitiiti is released (in the mould of ali, offloads) and a half back.

IF true I think it would be a half decent signing. Plenty of aggression, decent go forward and an offload game as well. Given the 2 props we've definately lost already then I think he would add something a little different to what we have.

Don't get me wrong he'd be no superstar signing but I bet he'd give us more than 4/5 hit-ups per game

I would not worry too much about the financial side of the Rhinos as at the end of October 2010 they were still showing cash in the bank of £ 2.30 million and also we are owed £ 1.60 million from other group loans I presume the Tykes,plus other monies owed in of £ 1.10 Million. Overall the Leeds CF and athletic are worth £ 14 million.

We will see what happens with new players but I am sure GH will not settle for second or third best the season is not over yet.

You're not GH by any chance?

Stop complaining, you know you are going to give all your money to Gary anyway
Be a good sheep and believe the usual bull that comes from the PR machine

Enough mugs.. sorry supporters... will still attend next season regardless of who is or isn't signed.

My eyes are bleeding!

Looks like a lot of effort has been wasted there.

Without re-reading the previous exchange I have absolutely no idea who said what to who, when or why now.

You literally can't argue with that!





Correct. Have you copyrighted your catchphrase yet?

We could agree to disagree - why be restricted to one phrase - English is a rich and varied language?

What we both know is we agree on very little, no one outside of the board at Leeds actually knows - that includes you, me and MJM - what is really going on.

Gossip and interpretation is the lifeblood of any message board - without it you don't have a board.

You have your view, it is no more valid than even the likes of Damo!!! - something you need to consider when you're being all high and mighty!!

For me I can fully understand the need to cut costs - the playing squad is the obvious place to make tangible cuts of the size it appears are necessary. I would like to see the youngsters given a go rather than the over-the-hill overseas players such as Kylie, Webb, Ali etc.

Most of all I would like the club to honest and show the fans the short/medium term strategy for the SL team.

Actually, we agree that Leeds will have to run things carefully when they are paying for a new stand.

Where we disagree, is on your opinion that Caddicks have liquidity problems that are affecting the Rugby operation, that the stand will impact the Rhinos cash flow to the extent that it will seriously damage their spending upto the cap, and that the Rhinos financially support the Union side, again impacting the onfield league operations.

I think its all unfounded speculation, built on gossip and crazy theories generated in your mind.

So I challenge it every now and then, trying to quote financials and the outstanding historic record of the administration, and you invariably end the thread by agreeing to differ. How does that sit within your thoughts of the "lifeblood of any message board"?

I think they will continue to fully utilise the cap, I reckon most others would agree. If that turns out to be wrong I'm sure you'll be back on it like a shot waving the evidence, but I won't hold my breath.

Now, if you want to change the debate to who they spend the cap on, that's a completely different can of worms ...

You challenge without any more knowledge than me or anyone i.e. the last set of published financial data. So please spare me the sanctimonious diatribe.

Your view of things is based on what the club did during its golden era of success when revenue streams were at their peak - even you must agree things have moved on significantly - falling attendances and season ticket sales - even as good as you think Hetherington is he is not immune to the economic climate.

Lets not forget Leeds rugby is tiny company in the grand scheme of business - and given the financial disaster that has been the Tykes you have to question the management and some of the decisions.

I try and look at what is happening in and out of the club. I see a set of financials that suggest Caddick cannot or doesn't want to put money into the Tykes at this juncture. I see hosts of Caddick signs around potential development sites but I don't see any developments - maybe you do but I don't see much commercial development going on. Maybe I am putting 2 & 2 together and getting 5.

The new stand is a pale imitation of what was originally suggested. MJM says it is a planning issue - that maybe the case but given the size of the Carniege and its proximity to the road compared to where the Southstand would be I suggest this is a smokescreen but again the only people who really know are the Leeds board and Leeds council. Logically a company with a turnover of 12m isn't going to spend 10m of its own money on a stand. Maybe they had a sponsor who was going to put the money like the Carniege who have pulled out?

Let's look at the team - Burgess, Senior, Cross, have gone, Bailey, Ali & Buderus look likely to be going. Webb, Sinfield, Kylie and Kirke have signed extensions it is very unlikely that any of these will have seen an increase - Sinfield and Webb will have seen a significant decrease. The only rumour of a new player is Griffin - so as I said to you before how does this suggest the club will spend to the cap? I don't think the players are out there - the Aussies of the right quality/cost will not come so how are the club going to fill the cap? If said the players leaving are - conservatively on an average of 70k that is close to 400k add to that the contract reductions I suggest at this point the club will be >500k under the cap.

I would be interested in how you think the Rhinos are going to spend to the cap?

I doubt Leeds have ever spent within 100k of the cap - it is no surprise that of all the top clubs Leeds are the only one who have never breached the cap.

I have to say I can't disagree with any of that.

The southstand development is going ahead with gritted teeth and in ten years time they'll probably look back and think, "If only...", its also clearly going to affect income and its fairly obvious to most that the budgets have already been adjusted to suit this.

I have no doubt at all that the development is well planned and will be properly financed and managed and we can have all faith in the company management to see it through - we won't end up with a stack of portakabins that are never paid for that almost bring the business to failure (unlike some local teams) just because the money wasn't in place before the order was placed, nor will we have to sell our ground to pay debts and then beg our council to build us a stadium on the pretext that it will be a "social asset".

But the good times are behind us for a while and its a case of grinding out some average seasons (by comparison) for a while yet.

The scenario being illustrated by McF is comforting in one sense, in that the long term stability of the club, in an off the field sense, will be secure, which in these difficult economic times is no bad thing when we compare against some other clubs. And as he says, funds will probably have to be distributed elsewhere for a few years to fund things, but what better incentive now to enter a period of rebuilding on the field, and invest in our own young talent rather than feeling the need to spend up to the salary cap on aussie misfits, and ageing has beens from other clubs.
There are currently a whole crop of talented young players playing at various age groups in our Academy sides, and it is in these young fellas that the club should be putting it's faith over the next few years, as we attempt to rebuild the next era of success at the club. That's where many of our current crop of GF winners started out, and now the time has come to start the process again, and although it may not be what some of our demanding supporters want to hear, it is a realistic prospect for the next couple of years or so.

The Tykes have, and always will be Caddicks play thing. They have tried absolutely everything to make them work in Leeds, including unique and innovative strategies, but they are, and always will be, flogging a dead horse. They do not affect the Rhinos on field operations.

All the Rhinos need to do is break even each year, the falling attendances and season ticket sales that concern you so much are still much larger that the vast majority of the competition. The TV revenue that forms such a large portion of income has actually gone up, and is guaranteed for 5 years, and more will be due to the clubs when cup and international rights are sold separately. Leeds remain in an incredibly strong position in a small and salary capped league.

Of course the stand will be well planned and financed, so was building the previous one, so was repaying the vast debt, so were the dealings with the cricket side, so were the Harris legals etc. etc. The track record of this board is very relevant to how they will ride out the economic situation and capital investment in the ground. However I struggle with the suggestion that they have sat down at board level and deliberately planned to weaken the on field product to achieve that.

Now, the trouble with how you look at the squad is that you have made all the numbers up, haven't you? Probably, like me, you haven't seen any of those contracts, so you don't know who has had pay rises, pay cuts, settlements and the like? You may be correct with who is leaving, but everyone agrees that the squad is in a transition phase, there will have to be changes, but you are using these changes to support your cost cutting theory. 2+2=5?

Are you suggesting that Leeds will only spend 70% of the cap next season? Do you really think there are no overseas players to sign (again whether we should given the recent return on the Australian outlay is another matter)? Do you honestly not think that amongst all the other expenditure incurred by the Rhinos, all the non playing staff and projects, they are not able to run a tight ship elsewhere?

And why on earth did they sanction paying a transfer fee into the Crusaders black hole less than a year ago to secure Hauraki if cutting playing costs was the priority?

Either the chief architect of the new South Stand is an astonishingly brilliant actor or his despair about what the council kept rejecting when Leeds suggested it regarding the new development is real. The Carnegie Stand is cited as a, literally, big reason they won't permit another development of that scale again.

You say "where is the cost cutting going to come from if not the playing squad?" Leeds spend about £5m in total on wages, salaries, NIC and pensions. In the past three years they've paid £760k in inter-group management charges, including £400k to Leeds RUFC. Given the likely correlation between cap spend, performance on the field and medium term revenues (and the latter is not 'merely' a simple consideration of a couple of thousand less in the ground for the 6m of next season when the stand is being redeveloped - if that happens), the playing squad is pretty much the last place they are likely to go looking - and that even allows for your view which does not at all chime with mine that the board see Leeds CF&A only as a company to be run to make or not lose money every single season rather than there being both a longer-term view and a totally genuine commitment from the very top to winning things.