....Did you ever see Hanley play???....Comparing him and Buderus??....



Hanley is the greatest British player of the last 30 years and if he was playing today would stand out like a huge sore thumb, among the robots who play today's version of the game.

If Hanley had been Australian, he'd have been as big as Langer or Johns, he was that good.

Hanley was a good player - one of the best we have produced in recent years but compared to the best Aussies - get real.

Next you'll be saying he was as good as Andrew Johns - oh you are!! that says all you need about your views.

I actually said he'd have been as big as, not better than, and I stick by that.

At international level, Hanley had to play with a lot of mediocrity around him, and so he suffered...At club level, he has a medal cabinet as packed as any Australian you may wish to mention.

At club level he played in a side that was the only full time side in a part time league!! no wonder he had a huge medal collection. Soon as he returned to the norm his medal collection really dried up. There were a number of players who turned out for Wigan who won a host of medal - doesn't make them world beaters.

Hanley only played a handful of games in the NRL choosing the easy option of the English league - shame he wasn't up for the challenge of a full time career in the toughest league. Big fish in a small pond

Squeef, perchance ?

On Thursday I watched the game from 23/07/2004 (at home against Saints) - Senior was incredible.

On Friday I was at Headingley - Senior was anonymous

He is at least a season beyond his 'Best Before' date.

Time to acknowledge that he has been one of the best centres this country has seen, thank him for his massive contribution to the Rhinos recent success and wish him well in his retirement.

Course it is. Poor Danny. Bad me.

Not that I was the one who started it.

The sycophancy has reached new levels if Danny's fan base actually think he was better than Hanley. It might help their argument comparing him to Diskin but comparing him a proper legend of the game. Deary me today.

Poor start but he got better and deserved MOM.

He started with penalties and finished with 2 penalties and gave them the point, otherwise he had a decent game.

I thought JJB was a shout for mom.

Thought it might go to Ablett

Mate Hanley was a great in the english game and is an absolute legend also silly to compare players that play totally different positions and era. But Buderus is also a legend of the game, let's not forget he was the Aussie hooker for about 10 years and was captain for a few of those and played loads of state of origin games. Over there he is regarded as 1 of the top hookers to have played the game.

Totally agree, I thought he struggled late on with Wigans pace. Has been a great player but its time to go. I also think its time we looked for a new scrum half, Burrow is a whole hearted player who plays well above his weight but just think he's seen better days at the very top level.

Buderus played 220 games in the NRL, He played 25 tests for Australia, 21 SOO in which he was captain in 15, GF winners medal in 2001 and the Dally M in 2004. That is a playing record that compares to anyone and that includes Ellery Hanley and even Matt Diskin.

Buderus is one of the greatest players every to play this game - end of - his playing record is a matter of fact not a figment of someone's imagination. What is sad is that he still able to dominate games despite being five years passed his best.

Buderus' performances should be judged (like any other player past and present) on it's own merits first and then set within the context of a team game and sport.

The Hanley analogy was offered only to highlight how even the greatest British player of his generation (and adjudged to be the best player in the world in '89) couldn't deliver an Ashes victory on his own.

Buderus' (I would imagine at least) already has a SL GF Winners ring to his name for his involvement in the 2009 season, not that that alters one iota his value to the team either way.

I actually thought he had a decent game. Twice burrow got caught out and he made great cover tackles. Certainly past his best but did ok on friday

I mean senior not buderus! Buderus had a poor start but was superb for most of the game. If he can get behind a good pack going forward he will hopefully carry his form on

Come on mate, you're better than that, from your vantage point you would have seen Leeds were short on the far (t stand) side and would have walked in for a try had Buderus not given away the penalty! For me a 'good' penalty to give away, despite the draw feeling like a loss, it's still a point gained. I put that down at the time as a 'professional' penalty-rather give away 2 points than 4 or 6.

Gareth will never give Buderus or any other naturally gifted Aussie any props, it is simply his agenda, you have to have made the most of your average talents and have come from a pit village in Yorkshire somewhere for Gareth to think you are any good.

Apologies if this has been mentioned before but IMO Buderus deliberatley gave away the last penalty and also IMO was correct to do so- our defence was shot to pieces and from 1 yard out with one tackle left Wigan would have fancied their chances to score. and win the game. As already mentioned it wasnt an easy kick, been taken from a wide angle by an unrecognised kicker who'd been having a poor game with the boot.
Playing the percentages he possibley saved us the game, but had to risk the chance of a draw.

And whilst we're on the subject, Hanley used to do similar things when he played for wigan by been deliberatley offside when the defence was vunreable to offer 2 points rather than 6.

Time, and time, and time again...

There was one game at Central Park that I distinctly recall where every time Wigan were in trouble one of the centres would stand way off-side outwide and Robin Whitfield would dutifully blow the whistle and award the penalty to Leeds. Needless to say this was in the time before sin-binnings were introduced to alleviate this type of cynical gamesmanship.

There was also a famous Wembley final (1966 I think it was) between Wigan and St Helens where Alex Murphy played the trick. Penalties in those days resulted in a scrum and with Colin Clarke (Phil's dad) suspended for the final (how's that for punishment by the Rugby Gods) Murphy would stand offside out wide and concede the penalty expecting Saints hooker Bill Sayer(?) to scoop the vast majority of the ball and the Cup.

The following day the Saints players (complete with Challenge Cup) were in the audience of an Eamonn Andrews TV chat show whose main guest was Mohammad Ali and Ali even brought the Saints squad into the conversation when discussing fitness and picked out one of the forwards as a potential sparring partner.

thats correct I remember that you just jogged my memory once again

Better than what?

What have I said? I merely observed it was Buderus who gave away the last two penalties of the game and the final one that gave Wigan the point? Where do I criticize him for it, where do I say he did the wrong thing? All I did was make a factual observation. Because that factual observation doesn't involve me licking Buderus booty it upsets his adoring hordes.

Would Leeds have defended the last attacking play of the game? We will never know, they weren't given the opportunity. It can be argued they would not, it can be argued they would. What can't be argued was it was Buderus who conceded the penalty that gave them the point.

Is that penalty any more contributory to the draw than any of the other points conceded or in fact any of the opportunities missed due to poorly executed skills?

Given that we were two points ahead and the hooter sounded before he kicked it then, erm, yes.

I'll concede that some of Buders's other penalties or even turnovers might have contributed.