They do. And that is NOT Ian Kirke for the vast majority of the time.

Let's remember, he made 4 carries in round 1. 4 carries. Yes, he was much better when he had to be last Friday but his praise is getting a little out of hand now. Let's see him string 3 or four consecutive displays together before we give him the fanfare, when displays like Friday are the rarity and not the regular.

Also, chasing down wingers is nice, but it's not the main attribute I am looking for in a forward.

Says you. You probably started it.




Especially as for the one V Castleford he was stood having a breather about 30 yards behind play when the ball got to Dixon. Incredible how some people manage to ignore that.

You scrooge tvoc!

He's a good squad player, Kirkey. He won't be on a huge whack and he has dependable hands. He doesn't usually miss tackles and has a fair bit of pace for a big forward. On the other hand he rarely hits his weight and rarely wins a collision. It's frustrating because he could be a lot better. He wouldn't be in my first choice 17 but he is dependable.

Just saying like. I thought I was being my usual charitable self.

Nah then.

Just like to say he were a bluddy disgrace on Friday night.

Inappropriate footwear which has not gone unnoticed. They think we are bluddy stupid and they will gerraway wi it. Not happening sunshine.

Thanking you kindly.

That'll teach me.



Quite. He was probably exhausted from the 2 hit ups he'd made during that 2nd half.

spot on, kirke stepped up because he had to and if he hadn't he would be bombed by brian mac whom i'm sure won't stand for many more 4 carry performances and with bailey coming back to fittness he will be looking over his shoulder. like you i'm all for praising performances when they are consistent but the bottom line is he doesn't do it regular.

He doesn't. If he regularly produced top performances and made the most of the size and strength he has, he'd be first choice. As it is, he's a good squad option who can do a job when called on without (probably) costing a mint.

i'll say he doesn't use his size at all 6' 4" 18 stone? he should be knocking blokes over delaney (a /2nd row) runs the ball in with more vigour than kirke he's another mcdonald or feather for me. brian mac wasn't the biggest prop in the world himself but he ran the ball in hard and hit hard in the tackle. as you say a good (reletivley cheaper) squad option and thats it.

This is a fallacy. He's a first choice. If you're in the 17, you're a first choice. He's been a 1st choice now for four or five seasons. He's not some young kid coming through. His performances should be better. Consistently so and not just on the odd occasion like Friday.

How do any of you know how cheap he is anyway? He's been here for some time. Is he really a cheaper option as a front rower than, say Ambler or a 2nd rower than Dane Manning, both of whom have found their path to the 1st team blocked by him and have been released on either a temporary or permanent basis?

As I said in my original post Brian Mac will stand for no passengers and selection will be based on performance not how many GF medals they've got. It is strange that Kirke is being accused of not punching his weight and knocking players down and inconsistency of performance then you offer Bailey as his replacement who is famous for exactly the same inadequacies with many fans at HQ.
As many posters would verify the goal posts shifted from week to week when it came to assessing Bailey's performances and what would have been considered average from other players was being hailed as MOM performances. It will be Brian Mc D that will make the best assessment of their individual performances and select on that basis.

It was noticeable how much freedom O'Meley enjoyed last Friday compared to the times he faced Leeds with Bailey last year. Not something noticeable from statistics but noticeable to those with an understanding of the game.

bailey hits harder than kirke he winds opponents up, i'm not sure he's the enforcer some say/think he is but hes a far better option than kirke this is why when he's fit he starts most games unlike kirke, my assesment has nothing to do with GF winners rings just what i see week in week out with my own eyes.

Spot on. Sums up my entire opinion of Kirke. He is one of the reasons we were able to win three in a row without breaking the cap.

If there was no such thing as the salary cap, and Leeds had unlimited resources, I don't think anybody could deny Kirke would be replaced, but this isn't football and we're not Chelsea/Man City/Barcelona. You just cannot have "the best player in the world" in every position. In Rugby League, you need players that can just do an OK job, for an OK wage whilst the likes of Peacock, Leuluai, Lauitiiti etc get their breath back.

It is totally and utterly unrealistic to be expecting 150 metres and 25+ carries from EVERY SINGLE PROP. If Kirke was producing the same figures as Peacock, or Graham, or whoever, then he'd be our number 10, first name on the team sheet, and demanding a wage to match (rightly so!!!) which would mean we would either break the cap (and Leeds don't cheat!!!) or have to get rid of someone else high quality and replace them with an average wage, average work rate prop (who would then in turn have a thread berating him for his 'substandard' performances).

What have I told you about doing that!!

Agree with some of the views on here. He is a useful squad player and on his day when he is in the mood he is a great first 17 player.

My issue with him is that he is a bit like Wayne MacDonald. He's a big lad who if he had the fearless nature of a Kylie he would run through so many more tackle. As its is he just doesn't seem to quite have that drive.

Happy to have him at the club though. Not every player can be a world beater, and if they were they certainly wouldn't be happy to miss out on some games/start on the bench.

My opinion on him is that he's a cheap option who does his job in the squad, and the 17 when selected.

He doesn't have great stats ball in hand, but usually features high up the tackle count, especially considering how long he plays.

Personally, I think that height is not a great advantage in RL, as most tall people lack the power.

He does what he does, and probably knows his limitations, as do the coaching staff. Its much more likely that he's sent on with the instruction of dont worry about the ball tackle anything that moves around the ruck, rather than he's scared of running it in or lazy.

What twoddle.

Tall players lack power? How tall is Mozza? I agree that with great height does not necessarily come great power but if you look at Kirke, he is tall and stocky which should mean he has the power. He simply lacks the heart to run full tilt into opponents. No shame in that, I wouldn't fancy it, but then its not my job too.

As for your comment on the instructions he's given. Again, I agree players are given instructions and sometimes to the fans a player can look like he is being lazy when in reality he is acting on specfic instructions. However, I cant believe for a second that a coach would say to any player, nevermind a forward 'dont worry about running hard, you just take it easy so your fresh for tackle duty'.

I've no problem with him being in the squad. I just wished there was a little streak of nastiness in him, that would rattle the opposition forwards. I would love to see a group of Leeds forwards who growled as they came on the pitch, but I suppose in these PC times, that sort of attitude would be frowned on.

It could simply be, that BMD is a better player coach than he's been credited with, and is getting Kirke to play up to his potential. Early days, but the signs are promising.

Why is it so hard to believe that a coach might say that? I'm not saying he has, I'm just saying it's not what I'd call 'hard to believe'.

It's not exactly a secret that a good defence wins games. What is it with people's desire for us to score a try on every set?! You know, sometimes it's important to just get a decent solid set in, put in a decent kick, turn the FB around, follow up with a decent chase, and take stock. Whilst I appreciate that there are times in a match when we need to be utterly dominating, making massive advantage, playing the ball quickly, and pressing on to do the same again, it's unrealistic to be expecting that for 80 minutes every single week.

Kirke is not a "dynamic, game changing, hard yards" player. His job (IMO) is to keep things neutral whilst our forwards that are dynamic, game changing & hard yard making get their breath back. If the scores remain the same whilst Kirke is on the pitch, then I would suggest that's his job done.

I agree a player should play to his strengths and a coach should know what these are and ask him to play to these.

What Im saying is that I simply cant believe that Kirke has been asked/coached to not run hard. In the modern game players are suppossed to me more versatile etc... blah blah.

A player might not be that great with the ball (Biffa) but his ability run hard or not is not to do with what he is asked to do by the coach its about what fire is in his belly. Kirke doesn't have that fire (at least not on a consistent basis).

There's running hard, then there's running smart.

Putting your head down and running full tilt at two well set defenders can see you put back on your seat or held up in the wrestle while you try to drive your legs to make an extra yard.

Taking half a yard of pace off your carry and using your footwork to find a weak shoulder can enable you to find your knees and elbows and generate a quick play the ball or draw a penalty.

I'd much rather see players prepared to do the latter rather than trying to show just how much of a tough guy they are by running over people.

Yep, Gareth Ellis is a good example of this. If he ran straight and hard at 2 set props he'd more than likely get knocked to the floor. Using his footwork he gets his nose through the line and often can either get a quick play the ball or an offload away.

Brilliant - quote of the week.

Personally I want forwards who run over people. Seems odd you wouldn't.

As for the sidestep. Oh come on. People like Ali who can sidestep at pace and ghost round players like a back are very much the exception. Most forwards who run hard then try a step a few paces before the collision simply reduce their momentum and make it much easier for the tackler(s).

Im not suggesting runing head first into a wall of players is what its about. What Im saying is that when Kirke takes the ball up he lacks the fire in his belly to punch through on a regular basis. I dont have the stats but I reckon if you look at his tackle busts he would be lower doen the list than most other forwards. (Cue someone about to put egg on my face with the real stats).

I hate to keep harping back to this same issue but... salary cap!!

Our squad, and the salary cap, simply does not allow Kirke to be the player some people seem to want him to be. Look, if he made the yards of JP, with the 'fire' of Biffa (debatable!), the offloading of Ali & the tactical awareness of Buderus, he'd be the best forward in the game bar none. Salary Cap would not allow that.