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| Let me make sure you understand what I'm getting at. I'll type slowly so you can understand...
I have no personal issue with Damo, but I do believe that everyone should contribute to society. There are lots of ways in which people can do this, and they are determined by their circumstances at the time. Not everyone can be a high flying solicitor...
I object to those who simply want to leech from society and consider that "life owes them a living".
I have no "Thatcherite" agenda as you imply, moreso I simply would like everyone to contribute in whatever way they can. I do not own a Porsche or a BMW, nor do I work in "the city" so I fail to see why you are trying to label me as a Tory boy as I simply don't share those principles. Not that it's any of your business, but I haven't voted Conservative for a very, very, very long time.
Thanks for coming on the thread, it's nice to engage in debate with someone of different opinion who is capable of a decent level of discussion. 
ps, we don't have a Tory government, we have a coalition.
pps, I am well aware of the reckless stupidity of the Financial Institutions and how they, in conjunction with a greed driven society, have created the financial mess that we are in today. |
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"Let me make sure you understand what I'm getting at. I'll type slowly so you can understand...
'"
I'll try not to respond in such a condescending manner.
Quote I have no personal issue with Damo,'" I do and you should. Because he's not representative of the group of people you're stereotyping him with. He's a freak of an individual. Your issue should be with Damo rather than this mysterious class of people you believe exist that do not want to contribute to society.
Quote but I do believe that everyone should contribute to society.'" As do I.
Quote There are lots of ways in which people can do this, and they are determined by their circumstances at the time.'" You're sounding almost Hitler-esque. His "put the people to work policies" were actually very good at re-building post WWI German economy.
Quote I object to those who simply want to leech from society and consider that "life owes them a living".'" Other than Damo, who are these people? Where have you seen this group of people? Where do this group of people live? Do this group of people really exist or have you lazily accepted the demonetisation of our underclasses by the Tory led coalition government?
Quote I have no "Thatcherite" agenda as you imply, moreso I simply would like everyone to contribute in whatever way they can. I do not own a Porsche or a BMW, nor do I work in "the city" so I fail to see why you are trying to label me as a Tory boy as I simply don't share those principles. Not that it's any of your business, but I haven't voted Conservative for a very, very, very long time.'" I don't define those principles by which high end German manufactured car you drive but by the beliefs you posted.
Quote Thanks for coming on the thread, it's nice to engage in debate with someone of different opinion who is capable of a decent level of discussion.
'"
Pleasure. I couldn't resist when my attention was drawn to it.
Quote ps, we don't have a Tory government, we have a coalition.'"
Mr Clegg has been a real driving force ijn the "liberal" policies such as scrapping Child Benefits etc hasn't he
Quote pps, I am well aware of the reckless stupidity of the Financial Institutions and how they, in conjunction with a greed driven society, have created the financial mess that we are in today.'" Yet it's the been those on benefits that seem to be the ones that have been demonised by the present TORY/[size=50lib dem[/size coalition since they came to power and not the cross section of society that really caused the issues. |
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"
With regard to the £1.50 per hour you got "paid" at ASDA, I simply don't believe you. That would be illegal as it doesn't meet the minimum wage legislation and you could therefore take ASDA to court.'"
It was a work experience scheme provided by the job club, they paid an allowance, Asda provided a place for a fortnight to see if they could ...
a) Utilise any of the young unemployed on the register
b) Teach any of the young unemployed that work isn't going to kill you or stress you too much
c) No promise of a job at the end but its your chance to impress, a bit like an Asda audition
Normally it works quite well, on this occasion the subject couldn't hack it, the £1.50 an hour is a mis-claim as it was never a waged position. |
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I apologise for the condescending manner I started my last post with, I suppose it's due to the tone of the thread and my apathy for those not willing to work. That is however no excuse.
To respond to your comments about "do these people even exist" take a look around any city centre and you will see them. Damo quoted a figure of 2 million unemployed, which we regularly see in the media, particularly at this time. I firmly believe that a large majority of them are actively looking for work, and they should be supported by society for doing so. As you know I live near Pontefract these days so I see many of them milling around the job centre whenever I go into town.
I find it interesting that you are isolating Damo from this section of society as, in your words he is Feckless and Mentally Challenged. What qualifies you to form this opinion? I also find it interesting that you tell me I should have a problem with him rather than an aspect of society.
With regard to Mr Clegg and his effect on policy, it's a tough one to call, as IMO we (the public) are unlikely to see his and his parties effects as they are probably the "brakes" for the relationship rather than the "accelerator" meaning that they are preventing certain policies from coming forward rather than forming them. I see the Liberal Democrats as a critically important balancing factor in the current goverment.
I also don't buy the "demonisation" of those on benefits as you refer to it. There are millions of very unfortunate people who completely deserve the support of the government, it just happens that those unwilling to work (voluntary or otherwise) don't fall into that category IMHO.
There is far too much effort, energy and money spent on demonising party politics in this country when it should be spent in more positive ways to benefit society generally, an opinion I'm sure you will agree with.
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Quote ="batleyrhino"If your CV can confirm you are not workshy, then post it on here to prove to all your doubters that is the case. Of course if you don't / can't it will prove them all right.'"
Work Experience
Local Hairdressers(2008 - present)
Floor sweeper
After having my hair cut at the local hairdressers I often offer to sweep up the hair on floor to gain experience in cleaning. My ambition is to eventually serve tea in this establishment so then I can apply for jobs that involve serving guest in a restaurant.
Local Rice & Noodle Shop (2010)
Social Marketer
Facebook is a great way to advertise on where people should eat. After having a takeaway from my local rice and noodle shop I let everyone know how much I’ve enjoyed it. This encourages more people to purchase their food from The Local Rice & Noodle Shop.
Farsley Paper Shop (2009)
Shelf Stacker
After a clumsy customer knocked a few goods off the shelf I decided to help and put the items back where they belong. The shop keep at the time was so pleased with my help she gave me a 10p mix.
Quote With regard to the £1.50 per hour you got "paid" at ASDA, I simply don't believe you. That would be illegal as it doesn't meet the minimum wage legislation and you could therefore take ASDA to court. If, as you claim, ASDA are willing to replace their workforce who must legally be paid at least the minimum wage, with other "job centre" workers, that would lead to a lot of court cases, and a hell of a lot more costs than paying the minimum wage to their staff. It is not in any companies interests to be dragged into litigation for failing to comply with the employment law, so I find your claim very hard to believe.'"
Its happening and these people don’t protest for nothing -
Unemployed people claiming Job Seekers Allowance are, after a specified period signing on, forced to attend private companies such as A4e under threat of having their benefits stopped. A4e, in their turn, try to force these claimants to work for their benefits on temporary work placements at both voluntary sector organisations and at private companies. ECAP are urging workers to pressure their employers not to use this slave labour.
Source: www.indymediascotland.org/node/19721
And you should read this Article too -
Hello workfare
One of the latest reforms is the introduction of the ‘Flexible New Deal’, which began in October 2009. The year-long scheme is not run directly by the government, but is contracted out to a number of private companies who stand to receive millions in public money to bully the unemployed into accepting any job at rock bottom wages. This won’t create any new jobs – it will just force the unemployed to compete desperately with each other for the few jobs that are available. The effect of this on the labour market will be to push down wages and reduce job security even further.
After six months on the FND claimants are forced to work for their benefits (workfare) for one month: 40 hours work a week for 4 weeks in order to receive a meagre £64.30 a week (or even less for couples or the under 25s). Even for those on the ‘higher’ rate, this is just £1.60 an hour! The scheme benefits employers and nobody else. Why take on workers at minimum wage or higher when you can get them at £1.60 an hour? Those who lose their jobs due to the recession may one day find themselves forced to work their old job for benefit levels. This will only exacerbate the ‘race to the bottom’ in wages and conditions which is fast becoming the norm in the ‘modern economy’.
Source: libcom.org/news/farewell-welfare-23082010
Now in reguards to my ‘ASDA’ placement. I was put on at the same time as someone else and that someone else stuck it out.
Guess where I last saw him?
Walking home from the dole. Workfare is reality and its going to be like this for a very long time.
Quote By the way if you were willing to work, you would be working for Serge Storms company now as he offered you a position in the warehouse a couple of weeks ago. '"
I didn’t have my glasses at the time. I’ve recently let him know that I’ve got my glasses back and he hasn’t got back in touch.
Quote You make a flippant remark about "cutting grass with scissors", but what's the problem with making a contribution to society for your free handout? I don't suggest it has to be demeaning, but you seem to think its perfectly acceptable to "sponge" off society without having to contribute. It is simply ridiculous that you insinuate we should all pity you because it "took you a year to come to terms with being on the dole". Get a grip. You might pity yourself, but don't expect everyone else to feel sorry for you.'"
I’ve got a grip thank you.
To be fair I do think that people should contribute for their benefits on fair terms. 10 hours a week (its probably less) would be fair as you are getting the NMW for the hours that your working. Anymore than 10 hours then its slave labour as it below the NMW.
Quote Oh and if you don't want your dole money, why take it? Are your principles so cheap that they can be bought with what you have already confirmed is £50 a week?'"
I’m reluctantly taking it as I’m sure many people are. People don’t go skipping all the way there and all the way back to the job centre. |
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Quote ="batleyrhino"If your CV can confirm you are not workshy, then post it on here to prove to all your doubters that is the case. Of course if you don't / can't it will prove them all right.'"
Work Experience
Local Hairdressers(2008 - present)
Floor sweeper
After having my hair cut at the local hairdressers I often offer to sweep up the hair on floor to gain experience in cleaning. My ambition is to eventually serve tea in this establishment so then I can apply for jobs that involve serving guest in a restaurant.
Local Rice & Noodle Shop (2010)
Social Marketer
Facebook is a great way to advertise on where people should eat. After having a takeaway from my local rice and noodle shop I let everyone know how much I’ve enjoyed it. This encourages more people to purchase their food from The Local Rice & Noodle Shop.
Farsley Paper Shop (2009)
Shelf Stacker
After a clumsy customer knocked a few goods off the shelf I decided to help and put the items back where they belong. The shop keep at the time was so pleased with my help she gave me a 10p mix.
Quote With regard to the £1.50 per hour you got "paid" at ASDA, I simply don't believe you. That would be illegal as it doesn't meet the minimum wage legislation and you could therefore take ASDA to court. If, as you claim, ASDA are willing to replace their workforce who must legally be paid at least the minimum wage, with other "job centre" workers, that would lead to a lot of court cases, and a hell of a lot more costs than paying the minimum wage to their staff. It is not in any companies interests to be dragged into litigation for failing to comply with the employment law, so I find your claim very hard to believe.'"
Its happening and these people don’t protest for nothing -
Unemployed people claiming Job Seekers Allowance are, after a specified period signing on, forced to attend private companies such as A4e under threat of having their benefits stopped. A4e, in their turn, try to force these claimants to work for their benefits on temporary work placements at both voluntary sector organisations and at private companies. ECAP are urging workers to pressure their employers not to use this slave labour.
Source: www.indymediascotland.org/node/19721
And you should read this Article too -
Hello workfare
One of the latest reforms is the introduction of the ‘Flexible New Deal’, which began in October 2009. The year-long scheme is not run directly by the government, but is contracted out to a number of private companies who stand to receive millions in public money to bully the unemployed into accepting any job at rock bottom wages. This won’t create any new jobs – it will just force the unemployed to compete desperately with each other for the few jobs that are available. The effect of this on the labour market will be to push down wages and reduce job security even further.
After six months on the FND claimants are forced to work for their benefits (workfare) for one month: 40 hours work a week for 4 weeks in order to receive a meagre £64.30 a week (or even less for couples or the under 25s). Even for those on the ‘higher’ rate, this is just £1.60 an hour! The scheme benefits employers and nobody else. Why take on workers at minimum wage or higher when you can get them at £1.60 an hour? Those who lose their jobs due to the recession may one day find themselves forced to work their old job for benefit levels. This will only exacerbate the ‘race to the bottom’ in wages and conditions which is fast becoming the norm in the ‘modern economy’.
Source: libcom.org/news/farewell-welfare-23082010
Now in reguards to my ‘ASDA’ placement. I was put on at the same time as someone else and that someone else stuck it out.
Guess where I last saw him?
Walking home from the dole. Workfare is reality and its going to be like this for a very long time.
Quote By the way if you were willing to work, you would be working for Serge Storms company now as he offered you a position in the warehouse a couple of weeks ago. '"
I didn’t have my glasses at the time. I’ve recently let him know that I’ve got my glasses back and he hasn’t got back in touch.
Quote You make a flippant remark about "cutting grass with scissors", but what's the problem with making a contribution to society for your free handout? I don't suggest it has to be demeaning, but you seem to think its perfectly acceptable to "sponge" off society without having to contribute. It is simply ridiculous that you insinuate we should all pity you because it "took you a year to come to terms with being on the dole". Get a grip. You might pity yourself, but don't expect everyone else to feel sorry for you.'"
I’ve got a grip thank you.
To be fair I do think that people should contribute for their benefits on fair terms. 10 hours a week (its probably less) would be fair as you are getting the NMW for the hours that your working. Anymore than 10 hours then its slave labour as it below the NMW.
Quote Oh and if you don't want your dole money, why take it? Are your principles so cheap that they can be bought with what you have already confirmed is £50 a week?'"
I’m reluctantly taking it as I’m sure many people are. People don’t go skipping all the way there and all the way back to the job centre. | |
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| Quote ="Damo-Leeds"
People don’t go skipping all the way there and all the way back to the job centre.'"
No most of them probably get a taxi payed for by the tax payer the lazy c4nts  |
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| Quote ="Damo-Leeds" People don’t go skipping all the way there and all the way back to the job centre.'"
No you are right, the blights of society feel aggrieved that they have to leave their sofa.
It's just not fair. |
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Oh good, is this another thread turned in a Damo-fest?
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He's fanning the flames in the hope it will be...
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| To be fair I didn’t even start it this time. All I said was that there’s a criminal underbelly element to everything in society which was relevant to the article been posted.
Then Batleyrhino just couldn’t help himself and make a remark about my own circumstances. Was I suppose to just leave it at that?
The best line from the whole thread for me comes from G1 -
Quote ="G1"Your issue should be with Damo rather than this mysterious class of people you believe exist that do not want to contribute to society.'"
Oh and LFC comes out with this classic -
Quote ="LFCRhino"No most of them probably get a taxi payed for by the tax payer the lazy c4nts
'"
The above statement is typical of so many others on here and just goes to prove that most people get their information from (not everyone) Tory propaganda when it comes to the long term unemployed.
The long term unemployed (including myself) are nothing but one of many scapegoats for a society to blame its problems on.
At the end of the day people are a lot more friendly towards me when we’re not treading on this issue.. |
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| Quote ="batleyrhino" ... we don't have a Tory government, we have a coalition...'"
OK, a Tory coalition then. |
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We have a Conservative & Liberal Democrat coalition. How could we possibly have a one party coalition as you imply above, that is a contradiction in terms.
Are you suggesting that when one party (any party doesn't matter which) gains a majority share of the vote, they shouldn't be entitled to try to form some kind of government, even if it is a coalition one? That wouldn't be very democratic would it?
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| Quote ="Damo-Leeds" Snip '"
So this CV you have actually turns out to be you doing a few "good turns" for a local shop keeper, and posting on the internet. What are you, a "boy scout"? If you were serious about working, you would go and help out at your local Marie Curie or Sue Ryder shop or such like. That is real voluntary work, not putting a couple of tins back on the shelves at the local corner shop.
Once again, your post stinks of "I can't find a job that is suitable for me" when what you really mean is "I can't find a job that I would find interesting enough, or pays enough, which translates to "I can't find a job which isn't below me". You are not interested in work, only sympathy for a situation you can't be bothered to get out of.
With regard to the job offer from Serge, are you really saying you couldn't contact him and arrange to go see him to discuss starting work because you didn't have your glasses? What rubbish, you still seemed to be able to post on here, so you were hardly mortally wounded.
Nice to see that in your own words "people should contribute for their benefits" only to go on and confirm that you won't do so unless it's on your terms, and that anything more than 10 hours would be "slave labour". You really are laughable.
Finally I'm sure that people don't go skipping to the job centre, those who are genuinely looking for work will probably feel an amount of shame (completely unwarranted IMO) about their circumstances, whilst others seem to want to wear it as a "badge of honour". It would be interesting to see people skipping to the job centre as many of the ones who go to the one in Pontefract are significantly overweight and could use the exercise... |
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i don't consider it a tory issue as the last goverment had the same problem. the issue is peoples attitudes.
we all know people who simply don't want to work and are happy to stay home and collect benefits.
make anyone who has been claiming long term go out and do something for there giro.
as for damo the goverment offers all sorts of free courses for umemployed. get your forklift licence, get soem skills training.
i would rather go work at macdonalds or burger king than be on the dole, however its easier to stay at home and plead poverty and woe is me all day
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What makes anyone think that Nick Clegg is politically to the left of David Cameron? I've seen precious little evidence of it so far. As for Cameron, his wobble in the face of a pointless (and unfairly applied) 1 billion saving in child benefit suggests it's going to be interesting when Osborne is piledriving another 82 billion worth of cuts in 12 days time.
Only the Con-Dems could introduce a populist levy on bankers then immediately offset it's effect (and more) with massive cuts in corporation tax at the expense of investment allowances for small and medium size companies. Genius.
When I say pointless, it probably wasn't, as finally breaking the right to universal benefits is probably also coming down the tracks. They still are and always will be the nasty party.
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"If you were serious about working, you would go and help out at your local Marie Curie or Sue Ryder shop or such like. That is real voluntary work, not putting a couple of tins back on the shelves at the local corner shop.
Once again, your post stinks of "I can't find a job that is suitable for me" when what you really mean is "I can't find a job that I would find interesting enough, or pays enough, which translates to "I can't find a job which isn't below me". You are not interested in work, only sympathy for a situation you can't be bothered to get out of.'"
I tried posting something very similar twice, both times with my post somehow going missing or being deleted.
If you are on the dole, why not go do some voluntary work for charities, or for one of the many hospices in Leeds. Surely this will give you a sense of pride, a sense of having done something worthwhile for your money, whilst helping out a number of people who's are undoubtedly in a worse position than you!
There is plenty of agency work out there, particularly in warehouses, the truth is that alot of the long term unemployed see this sort of work as below them.... I'm not saying this is the case for all the unemployed, but if you are fit and able, generally there is work available, if you are willing to get your hands dirty. There are a section of benefit dwellers who simply will never work - or who wont be pro-active, they simply sit back and expect the job of their dreams to come and land on their lap, and if it doesn't, they'll keep taking the public coin.
I am absolutely all for a benefit system, but it needs to be much tighter. At the end of the day, if you are fit to work, there will be a job somewhere for you to do, the benefit system should be there as short term aid, not to be relied upon long term.
It's all about pride and values. I would sooner clean cars, windows, pick up litter, become a cleaner, stack shelves than be on the dole - And that has nothing to do with politics, simply personal pride and principles. |
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| Quote ="tvoc" They still are and always will be the nasty party.'"
Hopelessly out of their depth party would be just as accurate. Like many of the upper middle and real upper class, they talk a far better game than they are ever capable of playing. |
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whats all this got to do with Wilf Rosenberg being suspected of being in the Israeli mafia?
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Superted"I tried posting something very similar twice, both times with my post somehow going missing or being deleted.
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Not deleted and not in Trash Can - you must just be crap at posting  |
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| Player Coach | 3813 | No
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| Jun 2008 | 17 years | |
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| Quote ="lionarmour87"whats all this got to do with Wilf Rosenberg being suspected of being in the Israeli mafia?'"
The Israeli Mafia would have looked after Damo if he'd have only made the meeting. Running diamonds was beneath him. |
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| International Chairman | 32466 | No
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By the way Damo, you missed the last intake of aircraft cleaners at Leeds Bradford Airport a few months ago, evening and night shifts, 30 to 40 hours a week, no experience needed, 50% above NMW - have a look at your JCP and see if they are recruiting again with Easyjet moving to LBA.
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| International Chairman | 35189 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jun 2023 | Jun 2023 | LINK |
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christ when I was off work with my knee that was one of the most horrible & boring periods of my life, I missed working
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| Player Coach | 11658 | No
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| Sep 2007 | 17 years | |
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When the company I worked for closed the division I was in I was made redundant it took me two weeks to find another job.
Just thought I'd share that with you guys.
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| Player Coach | 1755 | No
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| Mar 2008 | 17 years | |
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| Quote ="Damo-Leeds"gissa job'"
have you ever thought of pm'ing ramrod?
surely he could clearly offer you something out in dubai |
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| International Chairman | 32466 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Jonesy's a Legend"have you ever thought of pm'ing ramrod?
surely he could clearly offer you something out in dubai
'"
You wouldn't want to go to Dubai
It looks too much like Halifax
Or at least the bit that Ramrod can see when he looks out of his toilet window does.
Did I ban him ? |
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