State schools don't tend to offer rugby as an option. We have trouble finding players because non of our local schools do it and the kids all play football because all you need is ball and some "jumpers for goalposts". All the private schools in the area offer rugby (in fact often insist).

Liam Botham?

Where did you get this information?

I notice that a lot of the Union clubs have a lot of information about player's backgrounds, mostly schools attended. I also notice that virtually none of those schools were comprehensives.

Two things, doesn't this show the "toffs" stereotype to be fairly accurate and why is the private school attended so important to these people?

Retired, but a good call all the same. Another union convert.

Botham and Dowes only serving, of course, as privately educated Unions boys, to further the stereotype.

It seems to work both ways.

The club website is keen to mention which fee paying school player 'x' attended as some sort of brand of quality. The Royal Grammar School in Worcester is a club sponsor and a number of the schools mentioned make specific refernce to 'rugby' being an important part of their curriculum and culture, though it doesn't mention which code of course...

It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume there is a shared social 'character' between rugby union and fee paying education, particularly public schools.

EDIT - the info was from the club website and the wikipedia entries for the players. Quite a few players had no content on the club site or a 2 line entry in Wikipedia but its also worth noting that on a number of Wiki entries the school was given as a heading with equal 'weighting' to 'age', 'nationality' etc seeming to show that a private education is something that supporters also feel is an important indicator of quality.

You're right, it's part of the players history. Certain schools have often been seen as important for progressing to club rugby. It was really important before professionalism, now clubs don't give a t0$$ as long the guy can play. I
Sadly infrastructure of RU at junior levels will always be baised towards private schools because that's where all the administrators come from.

I do also think you have to accept that if state schools don't offer it to pupils then kids probably won't play the game. I also think you have to accept that many top RU players outside the UK will not have gone to private school in their own countries (only the white ones probably).

Just looked up "toff" for a definition. Came up with



PS, nob was genuinely there



As both players were educated at a fee paying school I think the definition fits perfectly and the original poster is owed an apology from Mr Gilder as are those of us accused of stereotyping.

I'm looking for damages in six figures.

£0000.00

Move the decimal point once to the left and I'd settle.

The fact that RU has a large proportion of ex public schoolboys in its ranks is a reflection of the quality of sports provision and facilities in state schools.

Public schools, particularly boarding schools devote a huge amount of time to sport and this translates into a greater proportion of players making it to the higher levels in those sports that the schools concentrate on - eg RU, cricket etc. This is an indictment of state schools.

You will probably find that those who succeed in sport that went to state schools do so through the local sports club being excellent rather than anything that the school has provided.

I wonder how a parent's ability to fund a private education for their kids, somehow translates in the minds of the gormless, into them being labeled as toffs! Money is no indicater of good breeding as the meter on here will easily show! Surely, the the only real "toffs" are those who attended a major public school like Eton, Rugby or Marlborough?

So, do we in similar vein dismiss all those none Union playing kids from Gipton, Belle Isle and Bramley as chavs then, citing their parents' lack of disposable income? Or is it the fault of the local Head Teachers who merrily sold off the school's playing fields, that we should be pointing the finger?
l

'twas always the case for instance that in the Wakefield/Five Towns RU district one would never be considered for Yorkshire representation unless one had attended QEGS in Wakey (true story)

By all means call me gormless but when wealth is an important part of the library definition of toff then a "parent's ability to fund a private education for their kids" quote logically "translates"....."into them being labeled as toffs!"

D'urgh.

...and Worcester's squad includes at least one player educated at Rugby.

Other than that though, a typically well crafted comment from poor little William.

So, by your defination, people who trousered enough wonga to fund a private education could be considered "Toffs"?

Mike Tyson....Idi Amin.....Mugabe.... etc etc?

I'm not convinced

Poor?



little?

It is not I, who is a vertically challenged ghinger with mortgage arrears

I am be no means a ‘Toff’ nor am I a ‘Chav’ – I’m somewhere in between, a ‘Choff’ if you like.

For someone who has called other posters gormless you might want to check the spelling of definition.

And it's not by my definition, or defination if the truly gormless prefer, it's the dictionary definition.

HTH Ramrod.

Wow. Didn't take you long to get personal did it you nasty piece of work.

Its just William's way. His self loathing eats away at him like a cancer. He can't help himself. The fearless anonymity and nature of his internet persona is the morphine that keeps the pain of life tolerable for him. We should allow him this placebo.

In that spirit, I'd best clarify.

Poor doesn't relate to money William it relates to a feeling of pity. That rather and treat you with the contempt you're used to, the contempt that has warped you, ideally we should at least try to treat you with kindness and pity. There but for the grace of God and all that.

Little wasn't directed at height or indeed physical size, its describing character - someone who is unimportant, unloved, uncared for. Its why you are so deserving of pity.

Finally, my post was aimed at your unerring gift for failure. That, once again you've unleashed your razor sharp wit only to slip and slash through your already heavilly scarred wrists.

For the record 5ft 10 (or 1.775m in January which is a fraction under I'll grant you), never officially in arrears on the mortgage but late during 2 months (the last being in the autumn) but, hey, you've got me on the ginger. I'm going to be brave and see if I can survive I think.

Well spotted there Danny.

The problem I have always had with Puigh, unlike your goodself, is that in all his various reincarnations over the years there is something about his persona which gets up my nose. Possibly it's because he was an integral part of that late and unlamented Clique, who tended to be a tad obnoxious to any who had a different viewpoint, and I suspect were responsible for a fair few Leeds fans departing these boards.

Consequently I tend to avoid commenting directly on most of his contributions, as in all likelihood my reply would be coloured by my dislike of the poster, rather than addressing any points raised. Where I do give him credit, is in his analysis of the game which can be spot on.

If however, Puigh chooses to make reference to me, then I'm more than happy to indulge him and respond as I see fit.

Hope that's put your mind at rest.

...and "Rumplestiltskin" too apparently, or maybe thats his "brother" using that log-in ?

Still, a bit of personality disorder with a smattering of "please hate me" gives us all a few moments of amusement don't you think ?

Ah McF, you just can't help yourself can you?