They didn't dominate, and anyone who was at the game forming their own opinion would know that.

They were controlled completely by the oppossition. To be dominant you would be the one controlling. That was far from the case.

The Leeds pack completely controlled that game, but for something like a 10 minute spell.

If Saints pack dominates it results in a quick PTB - that simply never materialised last night.

Saints forwards may have made more yards but the Leeds forwards controlled the PTB and that was probably the focus of their defensive strategy stopping Saints get quick ball. This is where Bailey is so good his control of the ruck/wrestle is excellent.

As for Graham - what did he do that makes you think he had a great game? to he simply trundled the ball up into the tackle - he didn't break one tackle nor get any offload so what exactly were his strong points last night?

Yards, someone has to drag the team up the field.

Which of those things you mentioned Graham didn't do, did Bailey do exactly?

You suggest Bailey controlled the play the ball. I bet he wasn't involved in any more than 10 tackles knowing his usual time/workrate so I think it's a mute point.

The legend that is BBC Radio Leeds commentator Ron Hill reckons JJB is bratfort bound!!!!!











What a load of b*****ks!!!

Bailey has an ability in winding players up on the pitch and winding fans up on here.

Anyway if your backs and forwards were better than ours then you would have won.

You didn’t win.

Ergo your back and forwards weren’t as good as ours – shimples.

Brian McClennan agreed that Saints were better in certain areas on Look North. In the long bar last night he mentioned the yards Saints were making on their sets.

That tells me what I thought inside the ground. That Saints pack were on top for around 65 minutes. However, they didnt take their chances, 'The Greatest Ever Super League Team' soaked everything up and did what they had to.

'The Greatest Ever Super League Team' know how to win finals, St Helens dont.

making yards does not mean that you are in control. for most of the game leeds were very happy just to take a few steps forward in defence and allow saints to run at them. leeds then controlled the tackle, held the man up for a few seconds before putting him on his back, resulting in a slow play the ball. giving leeds time to set the line, and go through it again next tackle.

anyone who thinks saints pack dominated, ask yourself how many quick play the balls did saints have?

A point also raised by McRae on the commentary.

Why do people assume yardage is dominance. Two completely different things.

The Leeds pack was entirely dominant, hence the result.

did saints score or even look like scoring on those sets? thought not.

just because leeds weren't sprinting up and restricting them to just a couple meters a tackle, doesn't mean that leeds weren't controlling them.

#

in shane wbckes book which i am just reading he says he once was the top metre making prop and it's a pile of sh*t. props should be judged on everything but metre making

So Leeds were controlling Saints pack by letting them make 60 yards on every first 5 tackles of the set?

Ok then.

Just tell me this. Why, if Leeds pack was on top for 70 minutes did Saints restrict our yardage forcing us to kick from deep for the majority of the game. Did McClennan say, "dont make yards on your sets boys. Let's make it hard for ourselves. I want us to kick from as close to our line as possible. Oh, and when they've got the ball I want you to allow them to get close to our line so they have a better chance of scoring"



Leeds simply didnt allow Saints to come at them, they were up and at them. That Leeds soaked everything up and when the pendulum swung Leeds way took their chances is testament to the whole team.

Don't know why I'm arguing with people who think this team needs a wholesale clearout anyway

Erm...yes. One try scored, two tries disallowed and Leeds were lucky with the bounce a couple of times in the first half.

HTH

You just stick to calling for the coaches head in April. It's what you do best

1 try scored off a lucky deflection, and 2 'tries disallowed' on the fact that they weren't tries

If Leeds pack were totally dominant yet only scraped it on a contentious try with 8 minutes to go then it's official, Leeds are crap.

They're not though. Leeds knew they could soak up everything Saints threw at them and still win. With 20 minutes to go this was in danger of backfiring. Had Gidley and then Meli not had brainfarts it could well have been a different story. Had the contentious try not been given then this totally dominant pack would have won by 1 point or quite possibly lost the game and we'd have had numpties announcing the team needs freshening up.

You asked



The answer is yes.

HTH

How long next season before you start calling for the coaches head?

so 70 mins of saints domination equates to 1 lucky bounce for a try and a couple close efforts? both of which were stopped by leeds' defence, rather than saints doing anything wrong.

Leeds knew they could soak up everything Saints threw at them and still win.

so leeds knew this, (and played the game that way, allowing saints to run at them but then dominating the tackle) but weren't in control ?

Now that's where I start to get tripped up

I agree with some of what Danny is saying and Saints made more metres which is what you would expect from a team who play primarily down the middle.

Leeds however changed their normal game plan to something much safer and seldom tried to go around Saints. Going down the middle isn't the Leeds way and it showed

I personally don't think Saints dominated Leeds - how many kicks did they have close to the Leeds line - less than Leeds had close to the Saints line the only repeat set Saints forced was from Gardener which suggests their dominance wasn't quite as total as some are making out

Just back from Manchester after staying over to celebrate and agree with all of the above. Bailey had a cracking game!

Why has a thread about Bailey having a cracking game turned into a discussion about which was the most dominant pack?

Nobody, especially Saddened, has said anything to contradict the view posted by Eccleshill and supported by me and a few others, that Bailey had a great game.

All that has been said is "I'll have to check the stats". Way to appraise a game,

i thought that bailey was outstanding last night,to contradict the opta stats which will be later made available,i thought that bails showed just what an important player he is to the club when he is on his game