Leaving aside the legality question you raise, I suppose with the rail companies you are utilising their services without a ticket (though they normally sell you a 'full price' ticket on the train and fine you if you have travelled without the means to pay?); whereas here they are saying they will fine you for attempting to gain access with an invalid ticket.

I'd have thought their response has to be appropriate and reasonable. Barring entry to invalid tickets would seem to be adequate.

Quote ="Richie"The railway cos seem to manage when someone travels without a valid ticket. How does this differ?'" There is specific legislation providing that it is illegal to travel on the railways without paying the correct fare and provisions for penalties to be levied in the event of non payment, including the possibilty of a Court appearance and a criminal record. Section 5 Regulation of Railways Act 1889 is usually used for offences of fare evasion on the railways. And sometimes sections 2 & 3 of Theft Act 1978. www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 90057_en_1

Quote ="Richie"The railway cos seem to manage when someone travels without a valid ticket. How does this differ?'" There is specific legislation providing that it is illegal to travel on the railways without paying the correct fare and provisions for penalties to be levied in the event of non payment, including the possibilty of a Court appearance and a criminal record. Section 5 Regulation of Railways Act 1889 is usually used for offences of fare evasion on the railways. And sometimes sections 2 & 3 of Theft Act 1978. www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 90057_en_1

That's going to depend on the definition of "attempt to use" then. If someone gets in with their invalid pass, then they have done the equivalent of travel without a ticket or with an invalid ticket. If someone tries to use one at the turnstile and doesn't get in, not sure they'd really be able to do anything if that person just walked away having being refused entry.

Quote ="brannyrhino"There is specific legislation providing that it is illegal to travel on the railways without paying the correct fare and provisions for penalties to be levied in the event of non payment, including the possibilty of a Court appearance and a criminal record. Section 5 Regulation of Railways Act 1889 is usually used for offences of fare evasion on the railways. And sometimes sections 2 & 3 of Theft Act 1978. www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 90057_en_1'" What about bus companies, airlines, cinemas, museums, theatres, and the like. Don't need a link to each one

Quote ="brannyrhino"There is specific legislation providing that it is illegal to travel on the railways without paying the correct fare and provisions for penalties to be levied in the event of non payment, including the possibilty of a Court appearance and a criminal record. Section 5 Regulation of Railways Act 1889 is usually used for offences of fare evasion on the railways. And sometimes sections 2 & 3 of Theft Act 1978. www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/ ... 90057_en_1'" What about bus companies, airlines, cinemas, museums, theatres, and the like. Don't need a link to each one

At a previous gym (a chain operated by a certain ex-owner of a RL club) I lost my membership card.

Said club charged a punitive fee of £8 for a replacement card. I decided that I would not pay the £8 and continued attending the gym, giving the girl at the desk my details and she let me in.

After about two months of this I attended one evening to be told by the girl she had a note for me. It was from the manager of the gym and it said if I didn't buy a new membership card I would not be allowed access to the facilities.

I asked for a pen and left a note in response saying that I was paying £35 a month under a contract for use of the facilities and production of a card was not a prerequisite. I accepted his termination of our agreement and would be cancelling my direct debit forthwith.

The manager called me a month later and said they'd not been able to take a payment and that I had to give notice. I pointed out I had to do nothing as it was HIM who had cancelled the contract by refusing me access and therefore he was entitled to no notice.

Silly thing was, said gym is desperately low on membership numbers and I've been called at least twice since with various enticing offers to come back. All it would've taken for me to stay was a free replacement card or a sensible approach to customer relations.

Were I a season ticket holder, I would be tempted to cancel my ticket and re-apply for a new one each season, under a different name, just to teach them not to treat their customers like cattle.

Keeping customers happy is more important than an occassional admin cost, and the company should put a place of 1 replacement per year, without cost.

£25 is a large fee too

I wouldn't even go to that much trouble.

I'd simply not renew. Then I'd pick and choose my games and pay on the day.

The club would lose out on the invaluable out of season income from season ticket sales and would also lose out as I'd be likely to miss many more games than I do now.

Depends if they were games you would enjoy anyway.

Many games I do attend are live on Sky. I have a sky subscription.

I've missed about 3 home games this year due to holidays.

I wouldn't take a massive nudge to take my no so hard earned away from the club.

I don't intend to, but any crappy customer relations nonsense like this would simply make the decision for me.

Gyms are pretty appalling - I think they are all struggling.

After being with Esporta for a year I decided to cancel - assuming it would be one month's notice. It was three months, which seems to be onerous.

Not only was it three months but the initial contract term was 12 months (and in the small print you'd find it was a credit agreement with a third party). I'f I could join (or in that case stay) on a rolling monthly contract I would but I'd not sign up for 12 months again.

At the time of cancelling I looked up Esporta & David Lloyd and found a host of horror stories of broken promises and the company refusing to allow early termination even in the event of redundancy.

I can't help feeling that if they took a more flexible approach to membership more people would join and overall income would be higher. The draconian approach must put people off.

I am with Virgin now.

They give you the option. A rolling monthly membership of an annual membership. The monthly membership is slightly higher but it does give you that freedom.

In Kirkstall?

How much is that?

I am Special.

Fantastic, yes?


Shut up vb1981.

I use the local peasant facilities. I got 14 months for the price of 12. I get a choice of 6 gyms and pools to use. Can't fault it. The one I actually use is about 8 months old and it's full of all the latest gear.

I don't go to a gym, I just run the streets to keep fit(ish) and use the interweb for perving.

If Mr Aubert would only look under his nose he would find very similar facilities a mere few hundred yards from his doorstep, facilities that also include the latest equipment and which are scheduled to be moved to a new purpose built premises shortly, at which point I may even consider re-joining again.

I think its the "Holt Park" tag that puts him off but I attended there for 12 months and only once did I have my trainers stolen whilst running, how they did it I don't know, you're running in trainers one minute, in bare feet the next.

Its the riff raff that puts me off



I only really want a gym for 3-4 months over the winter - so if there's heavy snow or bad ice I have an alternative to running outdoors.

Last winter I joined Trinity Fitness for 3 months - £21 a month, no long contract, decent enough gym, no pool but lycra clad student totty in residence.

As someone who manages just such facilities - ALL health clubs are struggling for members, some will be more flexible than others. To my knowlege only 1 actually takes members to court for breach of contract - it used to be my job to attend the court, although they don't have one in Leeds, Wakefield is the closest.

Virgin have probably the best facilities at a decent price, and offer both rolling monthly and up-front 12 month contracts.

3 month notice periods have been deemed unfair by the OFT and you cannot be held to any notice period once you have "served" your initial comittment - normally 12 months.

Best option at the moment, if you have the cash is to offer an up front payment for a fixed term - try hard and they will take it! NEVER, EVER, EVER pay a joining fee on top of your fees, EVERYONE will drop this.

You can have a 12 month membership at my club for 400 Euro - but it's a bit far for you to travel

I wish I'd known this last November



I ended up paying for 15 months.

I didn't have a joining fee either.

Mine works out at less than pound a day and I can't grumble.

I'm so tempted...

What, to rejoin the local peasant facility?

Allow me.

Having seen the results you're getting I don't think you're getting value for money

You'd be surprised actually. It has benefitted me in many ways. You obviously haven't seen me for a while.