hey saints fans

fiunishing top means F*CK ALL because the fixture list has been uneven.

It's funny how in the last week since the CC semi theres been a flood of outpouring over this from saints.

Theres been a thread on the VT (from a saints fan) a thread on Red vee and now their players are getting in on the act.

Leon pryce before last years gf as well.

You can smell the fear.

I mean, they couldn't really finish top for a 5th consecutive time and still only have 1 title from it............could they?

Who knows.

But it seems they're all sh*tting bricks over the prospect.

So in a way, i secretly hope they finish top again because you can just sense they'll be weighed down with pressure and fear of again not winning the grand final.

James Roby even said at the start of the season that his worst nightmare would be losing to leeds again in the grand final.

We are their worst nightmare.

There's nothing lopsided this season apart from the extra fixture of the Murrayfield Magic weekend. That hasn't been the case over the last four seasons that you want recognition for though. Those years have been uneven to some degree with the winning margin on the league ladder between St Helens in first and Leeds in second 3 points, 1 point and 1 point.



So what? St Helens must have had it easier to this point in that case. Bar Murrayfield where Leeds played last season's 3rd placed club (St Helens played 4th) everyone plays everyone else home and away.

I love arguements like this, based on little or no knowledge of the history of our game ....

So, for the benefit of those who have missed it before (as well as the hard of understanding), here's what used to happen prior to 1973 :

The league was contested of a single division with a lop-sided fixture list. IIRC, everyone played everyone at least once home or away and usually home & away games were contested within each county (ie all the Yorkshire sides would play each other Home & Away during the season)

Upon completion of the regular season, the top 8 or top 16 played off.

At the end of the process, the two teams that were left contested the Championship Final.

The team winning the Championship Final were crowned league champions for the season, regardless of the place they finished in the overall league structure.

A medal was awarded for both finishing top of the league and more importantly, for winning the Championship Final.

NB - There was a time in the 60s where the league WAS contested on a straight home & away basis, but prior to '73, the vast majority of 'Champions' were team that won the Championship Final.

Championship Final ... Does that sound awfully like a Grand Final ?

Play Offs .... OK so the influence of McIntyre has taken over the current ones, but all very similar ?

Is the current fixture list, albeit with Murrayfield Magic, not a straight home & away competition ?

So, given the current mis-placed dogma of 'the team finishing top of the league should be champions' are you prepared to renounce all the Saints League Championships from 1905-06 to 1972-73, where the team didn't technically finish top of the league ? This equates to basically 75% of all league champions ever have been decided by this method.

Sky weren't even a twinkle in Wilbur Wright's eye when the Northern Union decided this as the way to sort out the 'best' team over a season. If you don't like it, then may I cordially suggest that you start watching soccer ? This sport has a simple league system that is more comprehensible for its somewhat simple-minded spectators ....

and 99 and 00.

The saints fans moaning about this ARE STUPID F*CKS.

Why would a fixture list which has been lopsided, as you put it, since before we won the hubcap suddenly favour Saints? It's such a silly suggestion. Almost as daft as us excusing our loss in the Grand Final in 2008 on the bloody rain.


I was following up the previous poster's point.

did'nt we get the league leaders trophy about 5 times in 6 years and only won the championship final twice i think, and although in those days the fixture list was uneven we knew those were the conditions and accepted it.
i also remember the 1970 WC only 4 teams GB, AUSSIES, KIWIS ,AND FRANCE . it was played in a group format and the aussie's only got to play us in the final because they had a slightly better scoring average than either NZ or FRANCE after winning only one game GB won 3 on the trot and were epetcted to hammer the aussie's which they did in the fight but unfortunately the aussie,s won the game and all the aussie press reminded us "those were the conditions agreed by all 4 nations gb expected to win the final easily they lost it accept it "which we did

I knew Leeds supporters had little to offer the world but even I thought they could read.

I was quite clearly talking about all three achievements. Even your quote of my post makes that abundantly clear. So all your childish ranting and personal attacks sound just daft to me.

Did you watch Boots'n'All on Wednesday? Eddie and Stevo were desparately trying to down play the Challenge Cup final, saying that fans paid for the full season and how the [ireally[/i important trophy was still to come. So some stupid fans buy into that. Whoo hoo. However, the Challenge Cup is our longest standing trophy and I'm as big a fan of it now, when we're out of it, than I was when we were dominating it. I think ALL THREE achievements should be given equal recognition. But in this day and age of media driven sport, it is unlikely to happen.

Does that explain my previous post any better to you or are you going to go off on one again and look very silly?

I don't see Mike Stephenson of Sky handing back his '73 Championship Winners Medal because he isn't worthy of it and IIRC, Dewsbury only came 8th in the league table that season.

In 1960 - 61, Leeds finished both top of the regular league season and subsequently went on the win the Championship Final.

In 1966-67, 1967 - 68, 1968 - 69 and 1969 - 70 Leeds finished top of the league but failed to win the Championship Final of that season.

Interestingly, Leeds finished top of the league in 1969 - 70 and failed to win the Championship Final .... Interestingly, this was won by St Helens. Does this mean that team is not worthy champions then ? If it should be top-of-the-league winners, then I look forward to the retrospective trophy presentation and medals being returned in due course ?

It would appear the main childish rantings are coming from the published comments from Mr Wilkin .... Bleating about it not being fair. Finishing top of the league in a regular season has never been treated with the same level as winning the Championship Final.

Naturally the boys from Sky play down the Challenge Cup, that's what they do ... Mainly because Sky don't have the rights to televise it live. Instead it is picked up by the BBC, as by law it has to be broadcast on terrestrial television and the big national showcase event is habitually spolit by Ray French's insane rantings. Remember how Sky used to hardly mention the Champions League until they got their paws on the rights to show games.

Perhaps someone should take him to one side and explain how the Northern Union has pretty much always decided the 'best' team ?

Who cares? We're talking about now, not the past. We haven't always had six tackles or four points for tries. That's not the point. The point is, as I understand it, that the three achievements should be recognised and at present, top of the league isn't (other than by a hubcap hurridly presented at the end of the final game of the season).

Besides, we're losing our grip on the league leadership now so I should imagine you'll soon be hearing me and some other Saints fans saying exactly the same thing about the importance of the top of the league EVEN THOUGH we aren't top!

Well the rate Saints are going were odds on to finish top...his tune will feckin change then wont it!!

Since when?

Saints will be interested more than usual tonight. Could Stains be looking at 3rd and trophyless, maybe thats why the Stains fans are putting so much emphasis on the LL shield?

Good result for Hull KR.

If St Helens lose every game Steve Ganson takes charge of it would help the argument for home town appointments (except in the home towns that is.)

It's getting tight at the top.

Yes. A number of us can see us being trophy-less this season and at best third.

But I still say first place should be recognised equally with the Grand Final and Challenge Cup trophies.

(PS: Don't wish for Bluey's departure as much as you were doing at the beginning of the year; this is what can happen when a new coach takes over the reigns)

What me personally? Your probably right maybe the team who finishes top should get more recognition but I/we didn't make the rules and everybody knows them.

No, not you personally. I was using the inclusive you. I read the threads on here and lots of people were thinking he should go. The grass isn't always greener!

Sure you didn't make the rules. I was just following up on what Wilkin was saying is all. And I'm sure if you do remain first - and only Hudds can threaten you this season - then you will like it there, whatever you (exclusive) or you (inclusive) have said up to now.

well the leedsv saints game looks like its going to decide who takes the leader's trophy .
it would be good if they award it to whoever wins ,
anyway it should sell out now i cant wait

For the record i would love us to win the LL shield, or any other trophy for that matter.

Why?

Each team has one more game afterwards.

I bet Wilkin still decides they are the best team in the competition if they finish third and don't make Old Trafford.

What, you mean like all your fans are doing right now, on your board regarding Mick Potter? Maybe you should give them some of your advice.

Stop being a pedant, he means it is very likely it will be the key game that may ultimately decide who wins the Hubcap. Of course if Saints loose to Huddersfield and Leeds beat Saints (and Leeds beat Celtic away) it WILL decide who wins so the final game will indeed not matter... did you not work that out Einstein?

Whooooooooooooossssssshhhhhhhhhhh

You appear to have me confused with someone who you can tell what to do.



Why does it look like the decider?

Both teams could win next week, then Leeds beat Saints, then Leeds lose to Salford and Saints beat Catalans.

How will the Leeds game have decided who finishes top in that scenario?