First half: Wigan won the count 5 - 4
Second half: Wigan won the count 8 - 3 (after Leeds had got the first two in their favour, so 8 - 1 against from that point.)

After listening to his aftematch interview on Leeds website Bluey understands the situation. The majority of the penalties were given away due to fatigue and not dissent - Bluey said so.

So that's ok he knows what the problem is but obviously doesn't know what to do about it. We had tired players - no wonder!!! We ended up with 15 players. Buderus injured and a forward sub who never came into the reckoning.

This assessment is spot on. We hear every week they need to work harder and improve. It's not rocket science, improve the discipline and the performance will follow. It seems to me that Bluey is not having any effect on the team which seem to please themselves what they do. It is true a sense of arrogance is being displayed through being champions. If the players cannot apply discipline then Bluey has to impose the same on the players but he won't or can't. Tony Smith would never have stood for this, during his time players were pulled off for indiscipline or even committing a string of errors in a short period of time.
It is time Bluey took a stronger line and stopped trying to be the nice guy!

Though the standard of refereeing has deteriorated, (this due more to what they don't pull up against what they do) Bentham had a decent game last night.

Its' a chicken and egg situation. Perhaps the tiredness comes from the additional defensive work needed as a result of the possession conceded by the penalties.

Mr Aubert does make a valid point about frustration. However, its' the responsibility of the players and the coach to ensure they keep composure. I suspect the players are taking the coaches emotional approach into the game and we're poorer for it.


Not using the 17th Players was simply retarded.

Come on David, this is not an isolated issue. Its' a huge problem and has been for a while. Everyone on here and everyone in the league is beginning to recognise it.

Its' all well and good asking me how he stops the players giving away penalties but its' not my job, its' McLennans and it seems to be beyond him.

Would I drop the players you mention? No, but I'd most certainly drop McGuire. The team needs to know the penalties are not acceptable and four from one players makes him the scapegoat. It would give him a rest and send the team a message.

To give tiredness as an excuse is just unbelievable.
I suppose other teams don't get tired then ?
If this is all the garbage he can spout and not correct the situation(which he sems incapable of doing) then he needs to be on his way.These days no team can consistently concede penalties the way we have this year and expect to win anything.

Our discipline was a porblem last year.

That didn't stop us getting it right when it mattered and theres no reason we can't again.

We need some stats if we are going to unravel the problem.

What are the highest amount of penalties we concede?

Dissent, lying on, high tackles offisde?

You don't really need stats to know the general area Leeds (and all teams) concede the most penalties in.

Interference at the play the ball.

On refelection, should Tony Smith have been sacked in 06? 3rd in the league, out of the playoffs in the 1st round to Warrington and mullered in the cup semi by Giants?

Sack the coach. Wait cut some more key players from his squad, don't replace them, then sack him.

I don't understand people syaing McLennan should sort the discipline out. Surely it's him that has put together this game plan that Leeds seem to use all the time now, i.e. slow the PTB down at every single tackle. To be honest I'm amazed you don't get penalised more as you hold down, mess about and lay on every single time. It's all the more irritating because Sinfield and Diskin moan to the ref constantly about the opposition laying on when they're not (at least not to the extent Leeds are).

I know you'll say I'm just bleating because I'm a Saints fan but I'm not. Leeds have loads of fast skillful players and don't need to play that way, it would be a far more exciting game if they just lpayed the way they used to.

Why would we ever think that you were a bleating Saints fan


After all you havn't much to moan about in your post against the Rhinos have you?



I would have to disagree with your initial post, and say that you are in fact a moaning Saints fan, who still cant get their head around the fact that the Rhino's have whooped your asses for the past 2 years at OT!

Thanks for responding to the point I made.

Asked and answered in another thread.

My issue with Mclennan is not based upon results at all.

Smith had no pack in 2006 but his team didn't have a fundemental problem obvious to all that the coach couldn't fix.

Unlike McLenann's team this year (and last).

its no good blaming the players as if they alone are conspiring to undermine bluey ! This is the same coach who's Leeds team have started playing his spoiling game who had New Zealand doing the exact same tactics when they beat the aussies in the world cup. The Leeds club always played hard but fair rugby its a shame they feel they need to adopt this style of play to suceed now.

Discipline was poor from us again and does need to be addressed. Despite last week, I'm increasinly less convinced we're going to get it cracked by the play-offs. I'm not surprised Wigan dominated us so much in the second half with the penalties we gave away.

Having said that, at the game (as opposed to watching it on sky+) I did feel that he was more lenient to Wigan at times. For example at numerous PTB's Wigans markers weren't square often looking like they were stood next to each other.

I couldn't argue against the penalties that were awarded against Leeds though.

And the best team did win on the day.

Disgusting, dirty, disgraceful, ill disciplined team. The only thing you've got going for you is the gorgeous Danny Buderus!

ok luvvie
now go and get the yorkshire puddings in t oven

Our discipline seems to have a direct relationship to the score board – I give you Wakefield where we were on the rack and our penalty count exponentially increased.

Again at Wigan as the deficit increase so did the penalties. This would be symptomatic of an attitude problem that seems to be running through the camp and it is down to the head coach to resolve this.

At times we look like a spoilt child that has a bit of a strop when thing don’t go their way. If we curb this petulance then we wouldn’t spiral into decline half way through the game then suddenly realise (usually too late) that they need to get their fingers out and start playing again.

Simple equation – stop conceding penalties = stop conceding points, hardly rocket science.

Not something that Bluey appears to understand though.

It's not just the penalties that cause this problem though it's also not respecting the possession when we have it.

The spiral started more with the cheap possession we turned over which then led to cheap penalties as we spent less and less time with the ball in hand.

We did give away a lot of cheap ball on Friday which exasperated the problem further but it’s not as easily fixed as ill discipline.

I completely agree.

We finally got our kicking game right on Friday night but we could'nt turn it into pressure as we gave stupid pentalties away that let the Wigan players march up the field untouched.

It can't be the refs fault if it happens every week, home or away and with all refs in Super League. There is a serious problem here that needs to be addressed asap!

We let teams back into games when we could close them out. Wakefield and Hull FC home and away recently are 2 that spring to mind. Ok, we won those games but points difference could cost us the Minor Premiership!

it seems to me that the worst offender re discipline is JJB - although I would be interested to see who's given away the most penalties. So maybe he should be dropped from the squad as a lesson to the others. If I m wrong about this apologies to JJB who I am sure always looks out for my comments.