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| Quote ="Richie"It says "Earn your place, don't expect to be given it"'"
That would be one interpretation, another might be (in Worrall's case) start looking for another club next season.
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| Quote ="tvoc"That would be one interpretation, another might be (in Worrall's case) start looking for another club next season.'"
And I for one wouldn't be at all bothered if that was the case.
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| Quote ="tvoc"That would be one interpretation, another might be (in Worrall's case) start looking for another club next season.'"
It certainly looks that way, he hasn't imo performed as he did last year which imo was pretty good considering how long he'd been playing league.
I admit it tvoc you were right and i got this 1 wrong!
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| Quote ="tvoc"That would be one interpretation, another might be (in Worrall's case) start looking for another club next season.'"
TVOC am I right in thinking you have been bemoaning the size of the squad this year?
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Any club can do it.
Its a case of setting your goal out for what you want. What Leeds achieved was not by luck, it was by setting that goal, to devlop the players, with a plan for first team action.
They have not carried on the same way on such a scale over last few years.
Saints, Wakey, and Cas, can still repeat what Leeds did now, if they continue with the players they have been developing.'"
I look forward to seeing 8 Cas Academy products representing England over the next four or five years. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen though.
For all those players to emerge in such a short space of time at the same club was exceptional IMO - to imply otherwise would raise the query as to why no other club has done it over the recent past.
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"TVOC am I right in thinking you have been bemoaning the size of the squad this year?'"
Yes.
I term squad as players capable of playing at 1st grade level. Only time will tell if Pitts will add to this anytime soon.
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Any club can do it.
Its a case of setting your goal out for what you want. What Leeds achieved was not by luck, it was by setting that goal, to devlop the players, with a plan for first team action.
They have not carried on the same way on such a scale over last few years.
Saints, Wakey, and Cas, can still repeat what Leeds did now, if they continue with the players they have been developing.'"
So you can take any set of young local amateur lads and turn them into GB players can you?
What if the club have signed the very best young local talent and trained them the exact same way as we did with McGuire, Burrow, JJB etc but unfortunately they are just not as naturally talented?
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| Quote ="tvoc"Yes.
I term squad as players capable of playing at 1st grade level. Only time will tell if Pitts will add to this anytime soon.'"
So we should only sign experienced 1st team players from other clubs?
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"So we should only sign experienced 1st team players from other clubs?'"
If we need to strengthen this season's squad we need to sign players capable of playing 1st team football this season.
Only time will tell if Pitts fits that bill at Leeds in the 2009 season. So far Leeds' other recruits (bar Buderus) haven't improved this season's first team squad that I have noticed. Non of Eastwood, Ambler, Coady or Amor have troubled the 1st team selector/s.
I've welcomed all the signings as ones with potential for the future and continue to do so.
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| Good buy for the future it is clear we need to strenghten in the front row. I do hope it does mean we are going to loose Burgess
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| Quote ="huddersfield rhino"Good buy for the future it is clear we need to strenghten in the front row. I do hope it does mean we are going to loose Burgess'"
How would loosing Burgess strengthen the front row?
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| Quote ="huddersfield rhino"Good buy for the future it is clear we need to strenghten in the front row. I do hope it does mean we are going to loose Burgess'"
Burgess needs to work on his defence but to give up on him at such a young age when he has lots of potential just smacks of stupidity.
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| Quote ="tvoc"If we need to strengthen this season's squad we need to sign players capable of playing 1st team football this season.
Only time will tell if Pitts fits that bill at Leeds in the 2009 season. So far Leeds' other recruits (bar Buderus) haven't improved this season's first team squad that I have noticed. Non of Eastwood, Ambler, Coady or Amor have troubled the 1st team selector/s.
I've welcomed all the signings as ones with potential for the future and continue to do so.'"
Just some of your comments didn't sound too "welcoming"
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| Quote ="huddersfield rhino"Good buy for the future it is clear we need to strenghten in the front row. I do hope it does mean we are going to loose Burgess'"
That is an absolutely ridiculous comment.
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| Anyone remember 11 seasons ago signing numerous NFP players? It is just me or was that season the most successful we'd had in a long time?
Fleary, Powell & Co didn't do a bad job did they.
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"So you can take any set of young local amateur lads and turn them into GB players can you?
What if the club have signed the very best young local talent and trained them the exact same way as we did with McGuire, Burrow, JJB etc but unfortunately they are just not as naturally talented?'"
Thats completely not what I said.
The club identified players to bring into their scholorship scheme. They developed those precisely how they had planned, in order to get them ready for first team by a certain period.
It was not a fluke that these players were all ready at the same time, no matter what you might believe. Talented players do not dry up from the game. It is how they are developed that changes.
If Leeds or other clubs followed the same way they did before, then they can if they wish, repeat what Leeds did.
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| Quote ="Tony Soprano"Just some of your comments didn't sound too "welcoming"'"
My comments on this thread query the recent effectiveness of the Academy structures in place at the club rather than saying anything about a player I know little about at this point.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"The vision of the Leeds Academy is hugely distorted by a once in a lifetime crop emerging around the turn of the decade.
Within the space of three or four years, the club brought through numerous players who have gone on to represent their country (Mathers, Calderwood, Walker, McGuire, Burrow, Bailey, Ward, Diskin, Jones-Buchanan, Sinfield - off the top of my head).
I'd be surprised to see any club replicate that in the near future.
If an Academy system feeds one or two players in who go on to establish themselves in the first team every year, it's performing adequately IMO.'"
I agree, and all this talk of academy systems being a "production line" is nonsense.
To take a football example, after Manchester United lost the Busby team, they had to wait around 40 years for another crop of quality youngsters (Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Neville, Giggs etc). That's one hell of a long time for a large quantity of youngsters and the current make-up of Rhinos team is comparable to the make-up of the Man Utd team in the mid-late 1990s.
If you want more trivia, Ben Foster is the first ever "Man Utd grown" player to play in goal for England. If you use the "production line" theory, surely a club of that size should have been capable of producing an England goalkeeper?
For every player in every pro sporting first team that has come through the ranks, there are many more who never made it. There is so much loss and wastage in youth sport and it's not because the coaching isn't good enough, it's because the players aren't. It's the reason why Yorkshire have never found another Fred Trueman or why Leeds United can't find another John Charles.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"I look forward to seeing 8 Cas Academy products representing England over the next four or five years. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen though.
For all those players to emerge in such a short space of time at the same club was exceptional IMO - to imply otherwise would raise the query as to why no other club has done it over the recent past.'"
Haven't the service areas and/or service area rules changed since they were in the Leeds academy, which has restricted the area that Leeds and other clubs can fill their academies from.
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| Quote ="bramleyrhino"or why Leeds United can't find another John Charles.'"
You'll correct me I'm sure as I can write on the back of a postage stamp what I know about football but that must have been one hellova service area Leeds United used to have.
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| Quote ="tvoc"You'll correct me I'm sure as I can write on the back of a postage stamp what I know about football but that must have been one hellova service area Leeds United used to have.'"
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Thats completely not what I said.
The club identified players to bring into their scholorship scheme. They developed those precisely how they had planned, in order to get them ready for first team by a certain period.
It was not a fluke that these players were all ready at the same time, no matter what you might believe. Talented players do not dry up from the game. It is how they are developed that changes.
If Leeds or other clubs followed the same way they did before, then they can if they wish, repeat what Leeds did.'"
You will have to explain it to me in laymans terms because I could read that 100 times and still have no idea how all those players came through at once, if it can be done then every club in the world of sport would pour every resource they had into doing it.
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| Quote ="bramleyrhino"If you want more trivia, Ben Foster is the first ever "Man Utd grown" player to play in goal for England. If you use the "production line" theory, surely a club of that size should have been capable of producing an England goalkeeper?'"
Ahem - United signed Ben Foster from Stoke for £100,000 in 2005, by which time Foster had already played first team football out on loan.
But I get the point you're making.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Ahem - United signed Ben Foster from Stoke for £100,000 in 2005, by which time Foster had already played first team football out on loan.
But I get the point you're making.'"
Southend paid £100k for a keeper?
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| Quote ="tvoc"You'll correct me I'm sure as I can write on the back of a postage stamp what I know about football but that must have been one hellova service area Leeds United used to have.'"
Quote Ahem - United signed Ben Foster from Stoke for £100,000 in 2005, by which time Foster had already played first team football out on loan. Wink
'"
Meh, a good point ruined with unchecked facts.
I should apply for a job at the YEP.
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