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| Anyone know what caused Cockayne & mate to carry out such an attack. Not read into it all fully but have they mentioned his past & how he served in Iraq?
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| Quote ="(Broken) Time Bandit"If you get down to your local Crown Court next week I'm sure there will be more than enough lengthy custodial sentences handed down to keep you happy.
P.S. if you ask really nicely I'll tell you which Judges to look out for
'"
That would be great, do you have a webcam link to Phuket, cos I'll be there next week.
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"
How would you feel if it was one of your kids on the receiving end of that sort of criminal incident?'"
Probably ready to hire some thugs to do the same to him.
Which is one good reason why the law is best left to professionals.
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| Quote ="Dirty Pretty Thing"OK so reading that, I'm assuming he should have been sentenced in the highest category, bearing in mind he used a weapon (a shod foot - section c) and the risk of harm was high through kicking a prone victim to a vulnerable part of the body - section cii).
From that looking at the sentencing I would guess that there was provocation and a guilty plea both of which would lead to the lower sentence received.
Anywhere near?'"
You might guess so, so might I.
The court will have heard all of the facts though.
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| Quote ="McLaren_Field"Probably ready to hire some thugs to do the same to him.
Which is one good reason why the law is best left to professionals.'"
Like G1 you mean. Are you really really sure....
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"Like G1 you mean. Are you really really sure....
'"
OK, OK, so there are exceptions to every rule...
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| Quote ="King Monkey"It doesnt look nice and just looking at that you would say he deserves time (there is no excuse for kicking a man in the head). However, we do not have all the details and I'm sure the judge took EVERYTHING into consideration before making his/her judgement.
I love the bar room lawyers on here.'"
Spot on, there are a number of very important elements to this case (as with all cases) that have not appeared in the media. Matters of legal principle etc are one thing on public forums, but discussion of individual cases is always fraught with difficulty because of a lack of [iaccurate [/iinformation.
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| Quote ="Eccleshill Rhino"Surely this sends a message out that it is OK to kick a man half senseless -'"
He has been found guilty, given community service, fined, and a suspended prision sentence - any more bother and he's inside with no job and no future. What it says to me is that if you get in an argument in a pub after a few beers and you beat the crap out of a guy afterwards then you will be in serious trouble. I don't know what you call serious trouble, but I would think I was in serious trouble.
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| Quote ="Longun"I've always maintained that there are certain incidents, that if they happened to my family, would result in me taking the law into my own hands, and I'm probably not the only one.
Hopefully the next RL players to be sentenced are dealt with more severley, and a prison sentence is deemed suitable.'"
I wouldn't bank on it , i am expecting a community service order for the pair <names have been ommited to protect the innocent> of no more than 100 hours, they will be informed as to how lucky they are not to have received a custodial sentence, and told not to do it again
Meanwhile spending 100 hours visiting local schools etc will really teach them a lesson!
Don't SL players do this kind of thing
voluntarily anyway through their clubs ?
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| I wonder how his would sit with the Home Secretary's "court of public opinion".....
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| Quote ="Longun"I've always maintained that there are certain incidents, that if they happened to my family, would result in me taking the law into my own hands, and I'm probably not the only one.
Hopefully the next RL players to be sentenced are dealt with more severley, and a prison sentence is deemed suitable.'"
Absolutely. I think most folk have reached that conclusion at some time in their lives.
It's wrong, but perfectly understandable if you watch that video, and imagine that it could have been your son who was the victim of this thug's attack.
Personally, I'm happy to let the Magistrates judge what is an apropiate sentence. I'm sure there are many times when they are constrained in what they can do, and are as unhappy with the Tariff as the rest of us.
Cockayne I suspect, will no doubt get his just desserts in the fullness of time.
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Being slightly cynical here but its a lot easier for Cas to take that moral stance with someone who is clearly not an integral part of their squad. He's only played once for reserves this season, would be interesting to see their reaction to a more senior player.
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Being slightly cynical here but its a lot easier for Cas to take that moral stance with someone who is clearly not an integral part of their squad. He's only played once for reserves this season, would be interesting to see their reaction to a more senior player.
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Leeds decided the prison sentence handed down was enough punishment whereas cas obviously feel different in terms of the punishment to their player.
Plus i agree with DPT.
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Leeds decided the prison sentence handed down was enough punishment whereas cas obviously feel different in terms of the punishment to their player.
Plus i agree with DPT.
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| Quote ="Dirty Pretty Thing"Being slightly cynical here but its a lot easier for Cas to take that moral stance with someone who is clearly not an integral part of their squad. He's only played once for reserves this season, would be interesting to see their reaction to a more senior player.'"
Enough said.
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| I remain of the opinion that Bailey and Walker were high profile Leeds sportsman, in court far too soon after the Woodgate and Bowyer trial.
I believe that because of that proximity, their punishment was much harsher.
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Don't know the full facts so hard to say, but from a point of principle, I reckon letting a kid keep his job playing rugby is going to be better than putting him on the street without a job. More likely not to get in trouble again if a rugby career depends on it, arguably more likely to get in trouble again if career prospects ruined.
Re the Cockayne case - people need to stop saying sentences are too soft e.t.c. just from looking at some facts of a case. Unless you're in court to see and hear everything that is taken into account, commenting on an individual decision on the facts is not likely to amount to accurate criticism.
Criticising the guidelines posted above is the only way to genuinely debate the issue IMO.
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Don't know the full facts so hard to say, but from a point of principle, I reckon letting a kid keep his job playing rugby is going to be better than putting him on the street without a job. More likely not to get in trouble again if a rugby career depends on it, arguably more likely to get in trouble again if career prospects ruined.
Re the Cockayne case - people need to stop saying sentences are too soft e.t.c. just from looking at some facts of a case. Unless you're in court to see and hear everything that is taken into account, commenting on an individual decision on the facts is not likely to amount to accurate criticism.
Criticising the guidelines posted above is the only way to genuinely debate the issue IMO.
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| Quote ="Maverick Rhino"I remain of the opinion that Bailey and Walker were high profile Leeds sportsman, in court far too soon after the Woodgate and Bowyer trial.
I believe that because of that proximity, their punishment was much harsher.'"
The problem is where is the consistency - surely if kicking some in the head for a first offence on camera is worth two years surely logically the same offence should get a similar tarif - the fact that one court can give a different sentence for the same offence is morally wrong
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| Quote ="mleeds"Don't know the full facts so hard to say, but from a point of principle, I reckon letting a kid keep his job playing rugby is going to be better than putting him on the street without a job. More likely not to get in trouble again if a rugby career depends on it, arguably more likely to get in trouble again if career prospects ruined.
'"
Difficult to cause trouble if you are in prison - also perhaps some amongst inmates might address some issues that Cockayne appears to have quicker than being free?
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| Quote ="Eccleshill Rhino"Difficult to cause trouble if you are in prison - also perhaps some amongst inmates might address some issues that Cockayne appears to have quicker than being free?'"
Sorry - I meant that in relation to the question of whether it was better to sack a player convicted or not, regardless of whether they go to prison or not.
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| Quote ="Eccleshill Rhino"The problem is where is the consistency - surely if kicking some in the head for a first offence on camera is worth two years surely logically the same offence should get a similar tarif - the fact that one court can give a different sentence for the same offence is morally wrong'"
For you to expect such consistency, you would be making the huge assumption that sentencing guidelines were the only factor in consideration.
I would suggest that the political system can be a more important wild card when it plays.
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| Quote ="Dave Heron's Moustache"As I remember many people at the time, including the Leeds club, were shocked by the custodial sentence given in the Walker/Bailey judgement. I seem to remember the club making a statement that they thought that the sentence was overly harsh. If you think like that then maybe they got the Cockayne judgement right. I don't think prison is much use sometimes. The kid has a job (or maybe not? I don't think the league should de-register him but it's possible) and a sporting club can be the best place for someone to learn from a mistake like this. And, he hasn't gotten away with it. Any more trouble and he's inside for a considerable stretch and his career is effectively over.
He's been punished but the best chance of protecting the public from him may be to have him a useful member of society?
'" Well said.
What do people want a prison sentence for?
A deterrent? Studies show it doesn;t work.
Rehabilitation? I think the sentence given has more chance of that than a stretch inside and loss of career.
Punishment? That's one I find hard to argue against.
You see, I believe that the latter should be the primary objective of sentencing but that ideal requires financing and whilst I'd happily see my tax money spent I expect the ranters who pontificate on threads such as these wouldn't.
It used to be the case that kicking a prone victim in the head was a no no. Seems to have relaxed on that score.
However, like the bandit said, nobody on here knows the full facts and the judge did.
Oh, and bats, I don't do criminal work. Hourly rates are too low and the clients are scum bags who need locking up.
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| He never mentioned criminal work, and I know it would be too close to the bone for you, they might find out your a criminally lazy solicitor.
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| Quote ="G1"Oh, and bats, I do civil work. Hourly rates are too high and the lawyers are scum bags who need locking up'"
Edited for accuracy
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| Quote ="G1"Well said.
What do people want a prison sentence for?
A deterrent? Studies show it doesn't work - as does the US!
Rehabilitation? I think the sentence given has more chance of that than a stretch inside and loss of career - if prisons are the 'universities of crime' so many claim, why are they so keen to put more people in them?
Punishment? That's one I find hard to argue against - never underestimate the impact the proceedings themselves can have on an individual. Custody punishes, it punishes in ways the 'rant' brigade often ignore, being apart from family, determination of your own daily routine, privacy etc. The individuals in this case had a 'taste of it'. An old trick used less frequently than once was the case
You see, I believe that the latter should be the primary objective of sentencing but that ideal requires financing and whilst I'd happily see my tax money spent I expect the ranters who pontificate on threads such as these wouldn't.
It used to be the case that kicking a prone victim in the head was a no no. Seems to have relaxed on that score - still is, however the removal of the requirement for exceptional circumstances before considering a suspended sentence has allowed Judges in certain cases to draw back from immediate custodials. Still standard advice is 'kicking equals custody'.
However, like the bandit said, nobody on here knows the full facts and the judge did.
Oh, and bats, I don't do criminal work. Hourly rates are too low and the clients are scum bags who need locking up.'"
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