The previous suggestion to make the CC eligible for non SL clubs is an interesting suggestion, which I would vote for.

I'm not majorly interested in the CC, and judging on last nights crowd, am in the majority.

I am going to go to Wembley for the final regardless, and that's only because it is the first final there at the new stadium.

The Grand Final is the ultimate goal for any SL club IMO, and fans would and should agree that winning the GF has hell of a lot more prestige than the CC.

I was thinking about this last night, after the game (and overtaking the Workington coaches heading back up the A1).

Is the fate of the Challenge Cup sealed, with the introduction of the Franchise system in 2009 ?

Given that promotion and relegation as we know it will end then, one possible outcome of that is that many of the smaller clubs will become 'feeders' for the big teams (just look at the relationships that Leeds have built with York and more recently Featherstone ?). These teams will probably have most of the younger players undergoing development (or players seeing out the last few years of their careers) for their SL team 'masters', possibly have coaching staff from those teams and more than likely and open gangway between the clubs, just as they are in Australia.

With a 12 or 14 team top league and another 20 - 30 professional clubs under the wing of senior teams, the level playing field or all clubs being 'equal' (some are more equal than others these days), the concept of the Challenge Cup evaporates. Can you see an SL Club, playing what effectively is the Academy or Reserve team of another SL club regardless of the name (or history) of the competition ?

Would it be a good idea for SL clubs getting involved in a later round?

In hindsight yes, in tradition no.

the Challenge Cup can't be reduced to another Super League competition with room for 4 teams outside the top flight.

Has Grizzly Adams (BORORHINO) buggered off?

Does anyone want to start an online petition to scrap the Challange Cup?

Online Petitions seem to be very popular at the moment



I'll sign it.

No, I'm still here, slap.

I full understand your point. Unfortunately it is not held up by the fact that Saints chose to put out a weakened side the week before the final. This happened before the competition was moved to the summer. It is the fault of the rules that allow teams get away with this dubious practice.

Contrary to your assertion, Saints did not lose "form" last August. They maintained their run all the way to the Grand Final. I suspect that your view is based on the fact that Leeds imploded after the final against Hull. Don't Leeds implode at this time every year, shag, irrespective of involvement in the CC?

Has slap (AP) buggered off?

It's not about primarily about losing form... it's about priorities and taking your eye off Super League when still involved in the latter stages of the MM Cup. That's why Saints only just scraped past Quins at home 30-24 and beat Wakey 52-36 just prior to the MM Cup Final last year. And this from a team whose defence was rock solid all year apart from that particular period. Then they fielded a weakened team away at Catalans Dragons, basically throwing the game.

This is also the same period that saw Leeds lose at home to Stains, away at Hull and at home to Wigan, though you have to take into account Leeds familiar late season chokes as well. And what about the all-conquering Hull KR from NL1 last year? Their run in the MM Cup meant they lost to Leigh twice, 18-22 and 12-36, then got thrashed away at Whitehaven 48-12 in the run-up to their MM Cup Semi Final.

The previous year, Hull lost at home to London and Wigan prior to their late MM Cup involvement, and then went on a disasterous losing run immediately after beating Leeds at the Millennium. Saints scraped past Leigh away 27-20 as they had the MM Cup Semi on their minds, and Leeds got trounced 42-10 by the Bulls at Headingley.

There is clear evidence that MM Cup involvement in the shape of MM Cup Semi Finals and Finals affects those clubs focus, results and form in Super League throughout that period and that shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Why? Surely the onus is on clubs to balance their priorities. If they are unable to do so surely this is their fault.

I'm still here fatso (some of us do wash and shave ya know), but not for much longer... I've got a grass roots game to attend you see

This isn't the Premiership of Chavball where there is no Salary Cap and the rich clubs can field different teams according to balancing priorities Shag. Not that such luxuries helped Arsenal much this season did it? Bwahahahaha

I believe Arsenal met their objectives for this season of bringing through their younger players, settling into their new ground and qualifying for next years CL. Of course if you know otherwise...

Quite

God bless Uncle Mo

Oh dear...

The super league is the be all and end all now, what with the grand final and all the razzmatazz that surrounds it.

Who really cares about leeds v workington?

The games in the early rounds are non events and as such get low attendances. Interest grows when it get's to quarter final stage but even then it's ''well if we can't win super league we'll have that'' kind of situation.

Arsenal's objectives were to win things. Read what the players have said in recent weeks about how dissapointed they have been and how they have blown it.

Arsenal failed this season, if you want to delude yourself go right ahead.

Of course the players are disappointed, it is every player's desire in every sport to win things. This is not the same as it being the club's objectives for the season.

Should we hope leeds to get knocked out early so they can focus on SL, and pray they don't have their annual season end of slump?

..(though the last time we got knocked out early in 04 we managed to carry our form through)

Or should we concentrate mainly on the CC as our best chance of silverware?

I agree. It's something I've supported for some time.

I love the cup the excitment waiting for draw etc you dont get that in play offs or sl.
Super league is a joke anyway why worry about losing 1 game cause it doesnt matter anyway just play well in 6 games at end of season.
Hence why saints had no threats of putting out a acdamy team to play catalan.
I just been watching a very enjoyable game of rl involving a nl club and sl team lot better than most of games of super league this year.
If leeds was in the nl it'd be all we'd be talking about playing super league teams why take out the lower teams chance to play big guns.

If anything the cup shows us what we need to do to develop the lower leagues which rfl ignore and make no effort to help them.

I think the role of the CC going forward ought to be primarily about promoting the game outside SL. As a result I'm certainly not in favour of scrapping it. And making it pre-season would simply lengthen the season.

I'm not sure that at the moment the rules allow for teams to intentionally field weakened sides, but IMO SL sides should be allowed to do that in the CC. That way if a SL side decides to concentrate on the Cup (e.g. because they may be at best mid-table) they can choose to compete and field strong sides. Alternatively, a side scrapping for survival/top spot might choose to field a virtual Academy side. I guess it would end up being like the League Cup then - some top names getting knocked out early, one or two SL sides fighting for it, and possibly one or more heavyweight sides involved at the final stages.

An alternative would be to force all SL sides to field a minimum number of U-21 players (i.e. outside the 20:20 or whatever the system is now) - say 5. That would have the benefit of giving first team games to a number of youngsters but with perhaps enough star players to keep the gloss on the comp for lower league sides.

I know this isn't ideal as non-SL fans would want to watch top SL sides against their team, but it's probably getting towards the time that a decision was made en masse by SL, and not individual teams, and if it came down to it, I'd rather lose the CC than weaken SL.

What about a handicapping system?

For example a NL2 side gets between 40 and 50 points starts depending on their finishing positioning.

NL1 sides get between 20 to 30 points start.

The only problem you would have if don't get one of the top 4 clubs getting to the final you will have a half empty stadium?

Say Wakefield v Huddersfield final - 50k max.