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| I feel a sense of relief that Sykes and Brdige haven't been named in the team. A side from that it looks very poor, Myler is a dubious choice with no form or experience just cant figure that out and why is Eastmond on the bench?
How many of them would get near the NZ team let alone the Aus team? i'll say 5 would. Its a poor team and squad.
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| Quote ="tvoc"It's an underwhelming bench for me also and one I hope is a variety just for the French.
It will indeed be interesting to see how Eastmund is used during the game.'"
Is there any team in SL that puts a half back and a hooker (a relatively small one at that) on the bench at the same time?
Can't see what Eastmond would do when he came on? If he goes to acting half then I'll be baffled.
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| We all know that we are struggling for Backs at the moment, but the bench is a very unusual one, halfback and a hooker?
The selection of Westwood is strange as well (unless he is going to be spelled in the front row) as for a second rower we would have been much better served going for Gilmour, but TS didn't even take him in the 24 man squad???
This has all the hallmarks of a "I'll show them I had the selection right in the world cup" about it...
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"We all know that we are struggling for Backs at the moment, but the bench is a very unusual one, halfback and a hooker?
The selection of Westwood is strange as well (unless he is going to be spelled in the front row) as for a second rower we would have been much better served going for Gilmour, but TS didn't even take him in the 24 man squad???
This has all the hallmarks of a "I'll show them I had the selection right in the world cup" about it...'"
Either that or f#ck it i'm getting paid stacks by wire and i'll be gone by the end of the year!!!
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| I imagine it'll be Westwood to second row, Burgess to prop rather than having an out and out second prop on the bench. Graham and Peacock are both capable of sixty minutes if required allowing Morley and Burgess to fill in the remainder this week.
I hope the bench is bigger for the other two matches though.
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"We all know that we are struggling for Backs at the moment, but the bench is a very unusual one, halfback and a hooker?
The selection of Westwood is strange as well (unless he is going to be spelled in the front row) as for a second rower we would have been much better served going for Gilmour, but TS didn't even take him in the 24 man squad???
This has all the hallmarks of a "I'll show them I had the selection right in the world cup" about it...'"
The easy option then would surely have been to select Burrow?
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| Quote ="DHM"The easy option then would surely have been to select Burrow?'"
I get the impression it could be a bit of reverse psychology in that "I'm going to drop all the players that everone else said underperformed, and pick some inexperienced youth in their place so no one can blame me".
The only area this strategy falls down on is the selection of Lee Smith, which is the right thing to do for this series, hardly screams "planning for the future"...
It's been the most bizarrely selected squad for many a year...
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"I'll ask again why should Smith even be considered? It's a stupid decision any sensible RUGBY LEAGUE fan can see it.'" that's a bit childish by your usual standards.
As it is I disagree. I think you pick the best squad you can to win on merit. Smith is there on merit. By seasons end he was probably the second best English centre in the league after Senior.
Add in the utility value he offers and the lack of quality threequarters at Smith's disposal I think it was a no brainer once Smith made himself available.
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"The selection of Westwood is strange as well (unless he is going to be spelled in the front row) as for a second rower we would have been much better served going for Gilmour, but TS didn't even take him in the 24 man squad???
'" Why is it?
Westwood has been an integral part of Smith's international teams since he took over. Its' hardly surprising.
I rate him. If he could cut out his penalties he'd be a very good player.
I too think its' strange to have a half back and hooker on the bench but i assume he won't be doing that against the Aussies or Kiwis.
Myler, it would appear, is the new golden child of Rugby league and form and performances are irrelevant.
One wonders why the likes of Bridge and Sykes are in the squad but not in the team to face France. Surely he's not saving them to unleash them upon the Kiwis or Aussies??
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| Quote ="G1"that's a bit childish by your usual standards.
As it is I disagree. I think you pick the best squad you can to win on merit. Smith is there on merit. By seasons end he was probably the second best English centre in the league after Senior.
Add in the utility value he offers and the lack of quality threequarters at Smith's disposal I think it was a no brainer once Smith made himself available.'"
I agree with what yer saying G but don't you think it smacks of hypocrisy on TS's part?????
Afterall he's said his squad is selected with an eye on the future for GB/England yet L.Smith buggers off to union at the end of november!
Then again he says he's selected his squad on form yet leaves out Burrow,Tompkins and Senior yet picks Myler and Sykes
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| Quote ="G1"that's a bit childish by your usual standards.
As it is I disagree. I think you pick the best squad you can to win on merit. Smith is there on merit. By seasons end he was probably the second best English centre in the league after Senior.
Add in the utility value he offers and the lack of quality threequarters at Smith's disposal I think it was a no brainer once Smith made himself available.'"
As you know I'm a great believer in International Rugby League and bringing kids through.
I would much rather we had played Hall or Lawrence. Smith is not going to be around in RL for the next few years. There would have been uproar on here if Andy Farrell or Jason Robinson had been picked for England RL after saying they were leaving to go to Rugby Union, and you know there would.
Oh and both those were much better players than Lee Smith.
It's the principle, that's wrong, and I'd have the same view regardless of club.
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| Quote ="G1"One wonders why the likes of Bridge and Sykes are in the squad but not in the team to face France. Surely he's not saving them to unleash them upon the Kiwis or Aussies??'"
Please no.
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| Quote ="G1"One wonders why the likes of Bridge and Sykes are in the squad but not in the team to face France. Surely he's not saving them to unleash them upon the Kiwis or Aussies??'"
Someone has to hold the tackle bags in training.
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"As you know I'm a great believer in International Rugby League and bringing kids through.
I would much rather we had played Hall or Lawrence. Smith is not going to be around in RL for the next few years. There would have been uproar on here if Andy Farrell or Jason Robinson had been picked for England RL after saying they were leaving to go to Rugby Union, and you know there would.
Oh and both those were much better players than Lee Smith.
It's the principle, that's wrong, and I'd have the same view regardless of club.'"
The principal of picking the players that give you the best chance to win?
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| Quote ="Rogues Gallery"As you know I'm a great believer in International Rugby League and bringing kids through.
I would much rather we had played Hall or Lawrence. Smith is not going to be around in RL for the next few years. There would have been uproar on here if Andy Farrell or Jason Robinson had been picked for England RL after saying they were leaving to go to Rugby Union, and you know there would.
Oh and both those were much better players than Lee Smith.
It's the principle, that's wrong, and I'd have the same view regardless of club.'" Follow that principle through and ask why Jamie Peacock is playing ahead of Louie McCarthy Scarsbrook.
I am a great believer in International Rugby League. I think International Rugby League would flourish if we could win this series. I think to do that you pick the best team available to you. Smith is available.
Your example of Farrell and Robinson is moot because I don't think a scenario like this ever occurred.
I wasn't a fan of Noble as GB coach but one sentiment he expressed that I do agree with is that international jerseys should be earned and not handed out just because of what you might think some you kid could, potentially do in the future.
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| Quote ="Richie"Someone has to [ibe[/i the tackle bags in training.'"
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| Quote ="batleyrhino"We all know that we are struggling for Backs at the moment, but the bench is a very unusual one, halfback and a hooker?
The selection of Westwood is strange as well (unless he is going to be spelled in the front row) as for a second rower we would have been much better served going for Gilmour, but TS didn't even take him in the 24 man squad???
This has all the hallmarks of a "I'll sh.ow them I had the selection right in the world cup" about it...'"
The main reason we struggled so much in the World Cup (and there were a lot of reasons, many of Tony Smith's making) was that we didn't take enough Props over there in the first place. I'd hoped with this squad including Crabtree and Carvell, Smith had seen his error and would *put two bloody props on the bench and spell the forwards more effectively so that Peacock and Morley aren't shot by the time we play NZ*. But no, Tony Smith doesn't make mistakes. Tony Smith is right all along. We'll see.
I wouldn't be surprised with a PNG 2008-style game vs. France.
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| Not sure if this has already been mentioned but this is a real chance for Sinfield to stamp his authority on the international scene and stake a claim for future captaincy.
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| Quote ="craigizzard"The main reason we struggled so much in the World Cup (and there were a lot of reasons, many of Tony Smith's making) was that we didn't take enough Props over there in the first place. I'd hoped with this squad including Crabtree and Carvell, Smith had seen his error and would *put two bloody props on the bench and spell the forwards more effectively so that Peacock and Morley aren't shot by the time we play NZ*. But no, Tony Smith doesn't make mistakes. Tony Smith is right all along. We'll see.
I wouldn't be surprised with a PNG 2008-style game vs. France.'"
Spot on.
Once Fassavalou (sp) got injured we wwre shot.
Oh and Smith also only took one specialised fullback, who had a nightmare series.
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| Quote ="Mark_W"Not sure if this has already been mentioned but this is a real chance for Sinfield to stamp his authority on the international scene and stake a claim for future captaincy.'"
Depends how Smith uses him.
If he uses him in the same pivot role he plays at Leeds he'll do just fine.
If he does what he's done with him since he took the England job (and Noble/Waite before him did) and ask him to play as a running loose forward then he'll struggle and the usual "not good enough at that level" voices will be out in force.
Still, at least unlike both Waite and Noble he seems to have figured out that he needs to be selected at loose forward, not stand off or hooker.
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Quote ="Richie"Well, here's your team
www.englandrl.co.uk/article.php?id=15740
1 Shaun Briscoe (Hull KR)
2 Tom Briscoe (Hull FC)
3 Lee Smith (Leeds Rhinos)
4 Michael Shenton (Castleford Tigers)
5 Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos)
6 Danny MCGuire (Leeds Rhinos)
7 Richard Myler (Salford City Reds)
8 Jamie Peacock (Leeds Rhinos, capt )
9 Scott Moore (Huddersfield Giants)
10 Adrian Morley (Warrington Wolves)
11 Gareth Ellis (Wests Tigers)
12 Sam Burgess (Bradford Bulls)
13 Kevin Sinfield (Leeds Rhinos)
Interchange
14 James Graham (St Helens)
15 James Roby (St Helens)
16 Ben Westwood (Warrington Wolves)
17 Kyle Eastmond (St Helens)'"
That is a strange team. Surely Tomkins has to be ahead of Myler if we're picking on form. OK its only against France but I would have liked to see McGuire and Tomkins play together before sticking them in against the Aussies and the Kiwi's and this was the perfect game to let them get used to each other a bit.
As for the bench, thats just bizarre.
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Quote ="Richie"Well, here's your team
www.englandrl.co.uk/article.php?id=15740
1 Shaun Briscoe (Hull KR)
2 Tom Briscoe (Hull FC)
3 Lee Smith (Leeds Rhinos)
4 Michael Shenton (Castleford Tigers)
5 Ryan Hall (Leeds Rhinos)
6 Danny MCGuire (Leeds Rhinos)
7 Richard Myler (Salford City Reds)
8 Jamie Peacock (Leeds Rhinos, capt )
9 Scott Moore (Huddersfield Giants)
10 Adrian Morley (Warrington Wolves)
11 Gareth Ellis (Wests Tigers)
12 Sam Burgess (Bradford Bulls)
13 Kevin Sinfield (Leeds Rhinos)
Interchange
14 James Graham (St Helens)
15 James Roby (St Helens)
16 Ben Westwood (Warrington Wolves)
17 Kyle Eastmond (St Helens)'"
That is a strange team. Surely Tomkins has to be ahead of Myler if we're picking on form. OK its only against France but I would have liked to see McGuire and Tomkins play together before sticking them in against the Aussies and the Kiwi's and this was the perfect game to let them get used to each other a bit.
As for the bench, thats just bizarre.
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| Quote ="G1"Follow that principle through and ask why Jamie Peacock is playing ahead of Louie McCarthy Scarsbrook.
I am a great believer in International Rugby League. I think International Rugby League would flourish if we could win this series. I think to do that you pick the best team available to you. Smith is available.
Your example of Farrell and Robinson is moot because I don't think a scenario like this ever occurred.
I wasn't a fan of Noble as GB coach but one sentiment he expressed that I do agree with is that international jerseys should be earned and not handed out just because of what you might think some you kid could, potentially do in the future.'"
Got to disagree there.
JP for me every time without doubt.
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| Quote ="G1"icon_lol.gif
That's it, no more late night discussion with you. When you've finished smoking the weed and want a discussion tomorrow I will be happy to oblige but you should eat some biscuits and sleep it off.'"
Biscuits are far too dry, you would get terrible dry mouth-----a yoghurt, ice cream, chocolate, that kind of thing is much better
I know we are supposed to hate saints players here, but Ade Gardner, an average at best player, is a better player than Peter Fox, who should now be beginning to peak in his career, and he still isnt really a threat
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"Depends how Smith uses him.
If he uses him in the same pivot role he plays at Leeds he'll do just fine.
If he does what he's done with him since he took the England job (and Noble/Waite before him did) and ask him to play as a running loose forward then he'll struggle and the usual "not good enough at that level" voices will be out in force.
Still, at least unlike both Waite and Noble he seems to have figured out that he needs to be selected at loose forward, not stand off or hooker.'"
Completely agree AG it's a point that's been over-looked by many when wanting to stick the boot into sinfield at international level!
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| Quote ="chapylad"Got to disagree there.
JP for me every time without doubt.'" Me too but that is not the point I was making. I will illustrating that you don't simply discard players because they may not be around to play international Rugby in the distant future.
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