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| Quote ="The Biffs Back"Regarding Achurch
Where does he actually fit into our side where he can be an effective asset and actually warrant a spot in the 17?
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I don't think he does fit mate, If we had the likes of Ward, Ferres , Keinhorst (not having to cover centre) available he would be sat in the stands now imo. Makes sense to use a one of the experienced top earners during an injury crisis but he will be out of the squad once the injuries calm down and out of the picture all together come october.
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| I don't get the "grab" defence.
What relevance does whether you have an open hand or not have if you snot someone across the chin with your forearm?
Plenty of people get suspended for reckless challenges, so intent clearly isn't that much of an issue when it comes to handing out bans.
Watts knew what he was doing. He knew he was beaten and threw out a straight arm to make sure Burrow didn't get past him. To use a football analogy, he was out of control. Deserved a yellow as an absolute minimum. Cobb crapped out of it, simple as that. I'd bet if he had the same decision to make without the TV cameras there, he would have gone straight to his pocket.
IIRC was it Meli who got a five game ban for a similar sort of challenge in a Cup game at Hull KR the other year? Player stepped him and he just threw out a straight arm to the head.
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| I think we signed signed Achurch hoping for a big dynamic second row who could add something different to what was, and still is a pack full of grafters.
When he didn't make much of a dent in that role we tried him as a prop, after all he's a big old lump who should be able to make dents and provide an offload. With his history in the back row and centre as a youth he should have been able to do decent minutes too.
He promptly failed at that role, as well as visually and vocally telling us he doesn't really have the appetite for hard graft.
So now he has no place in our side, IMO.
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| Also makes you wonder if it is because it is Burrow and with his height, or lack of, a forward hitting Rob round the neck/mush would hit the majority of other players round shoulders/chest. very few of the challenges to his head ever see a player get a card. I'm not saying it should matter, round the head is round the head no matter how big you are, but it could come into a refs thinking.
Just a thought.
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| Quote ="Juan Cornetto"As has been pointed out Lilley has speed of thought and quick reactions and has that cheeky half back attitude so lacking in Sutcliffe and deserved his MOM.
As for Watkins he has lost the edge of his pace and sharpness which is all too evident in most matches long before he makes many tackles.'"
Burrow would have been my MOM, offensively was a recurring threat in those conditions - hopefully a return to form.
Watkins offence is suffering week in, week out by an overloaded tackling stint caused by having too many fringe defenders, not least when Burrow and Lilley are on together - at times stood side by side. If Watkins is defending four in just as he was for the opening Hull try having to tackle Frank Pritchard his sharpness is going to suffer.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"I don't get the "grab" defence.
What relevance does whether you have an open hand or not have if you snot someone across the chin with your forearm?
Plenty of people get suspended for reckless challenges, so intent clearly isn't that much of an issue when it comes to handing out bans.
Watts knew what he was doing. He knew he was beaten and threw out a straight arm to make sure Burrow didn't get past him. To use a football analogy, he was out of control. Deserved a yellow as an absolute minimum. Cobb crapped out of it, simple as that. I'd bet if he had the same decision to make without the TV cameras there, he would have gone straight to his pocket.
IIRC was it Meli who got a five game ban for a similar sort of challenge in a Cup game at Hull KR the other year? Player stepped him and he just threw out a straight arm to the head.'"
Watts was also 20 meters offside when the ball was played. Cobb had a way out of his big foul play decision, he could have just binned him for a professional foul. My view is he forgot about that altogether whilst worrying about and bottling the bigger call.
Ablett nails it if you listen to the audio. "Direct contact to the head". How many times do referees trot that one out in fake conversations with touch judges, aka video referees? They all forgot about it in this incident.
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| I'm with tvoc on Watkins. Its ridiculous to have a class outside back defending where he does. Its like using a Ferarri to plough a field. If anything I think most teams would do the opposite and try to minimise his defence so he is fresh with the ball.
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| Quote ="Maverick Rhino"Watts was also 20 meters offside when the ball was played. Cobb had a way out of his big foul play decision, he could have just binned him for a professional foul. My view is he forgot about that altogether whilst worrying about and bottling the bigger call.
Ablett nails it if you listen to the audio. "Direct contact to the head". How many times do referees trot that one out in fake conversations with touch judges, aka video referees? They all forgot about it in this incident.'"
Yep Watts being offside was a very poor miss from the officials. A sin binning if ever there was one.
As for the tackle, I can see the argument for a red card and to be fair to Stuart Cummings he was arguing for it to be red on Sky, though I'd have been more tempted to sin bin Watts. It deserved more than just a penalty though and the fact it was only a penalty, having halted our momentum/try scoring opportunity, was a big moment in the game.
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| Quote ="Him"Yep Watts being offside was a very poor miss from the officials. A sin binning if ever there was one.
As for the tackle, I can see the argument for a red card and to be fair to Stuart Cummings he was arguing for it to be red on Sky, though I'd have been more tempted to sin bin Watts. It deserved more than just a penalty though and the fact it was only a penalty, having halted our momentum/try scoring opportunity, was a big moment in the game.'"
Bang on.
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"I don't get the "grab" defence.
What relevance does whether you have an open hand or not have if you snot someone across the chin with your forearm?
Plenty of people get suspended for reckless challenges, so intent clearly isn't that much of an issue when it comes to handing out bans.
Watts knew what he was doing. He knew he was beaten and threw out a straight arm to make sure Burrow didn't get past him. To use a football analogy, he was out of control. Deserved a yellow as an absolute minimum. Cobb crapped out of it, simple as that. I'd bet if he had the same decision to make without the TV cameras there, he would have gone straight to his pocket.
IIRC was it Meli who got a five game ban for a similar sort of challenge in a Cup game at Hull KR the other year? Player stepped him and he just threw out a straight arm to the head.'"
That's exactly how I saw it. Burrow had done him and he threw the arm out to stop him any way he could. Burrow at full tilt heading for under the posts, stopped like that must be a card and I thought it was a pretty obvious red. I've seen plenty of reflex style grabs where the player genuinely hasn't time to think and sticks an arm out, but that was not one of them. Cobb bottled a fairly straightforward decision.
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| Quote ="DHM"That's exactly how I saw it. Burrow had done him and he threw the arm out to stop him any way he could. Burrow at full tilt heading for under the posts, stopped like that must be a card and I thought it was a pretty obvious red. I've seen plenty of reflex style grabs where the player genuinely hasn't time to think and sticks an arm out, but that was not one of them. Cobb bottled a fairly straightforward decision.'"
Yes, agree pretty much. Had it not been such an obvious scoring opportunity then I'd have said yellow. Then again, had it not been then I don't think Watts would have pulled the same trick.
As for Cobb, I'll cut him a little slack in that he's relatively inexperienced. His refereeing will come on no end if he admits to himself that he was overcautious and doesn't make the same mistake again.
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| Was Watts grab any worse than the high shot made by Ablett earlier that only resulted in a penalty?
I'm not sure & could see both being cited & leading to further punishment this week.
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| Quote ="Old Feller"Was Watts grab any worse than the high shot made by Ablett earlier that only resulted in a penalty?
I'm not sure & could see both being cited & leading to further punishment this week.'"
On the Ablett one I think you can hear the ref comment that the player was falling and to be careful with his tackles in future. Be surprised if it isn't looked at by the MRP, but I'd say it was penalty sufficient.
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| Quote ="Clearwing"Yes, agree pretty much. Had it not been such an obvious scoring opportunity then I'd have said yellow. Then again, had it not been then I don't think Watts would have pulled the same trick.
As for Cobb, I'll cut him a little slack in that he's relatively inexperienced. His refereeing will come on no end if he admits to himself that he was overcautious and doesn't make the same mistake again.'"
I agree. I know some might say at this level he can't make that mistake but refs aren't robots who'll get everything correct especially when you're still new to this level and knowing the sky cameras are there probably does add a pressure you need to get experienced to. I've seen much more experienced refs not show cards for much worst in the past.
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| Did Houghton bust Lilley's nose trying to stop him scoring his try?
Should that also merit a further look by the disciplinary people?
The end result is no different to both the Watt's & Ablett offence.
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| Quote ="Old Feller"Did Houghton bust Lilley's nose trying to stop him scoring his try?
Should that also merit a further look by the disciplinary people?
The end result is no different to both the Watt's & Ablett offence.'"
Wasn't particularly clear from the replays where Lilley copped that knock to his nose. Certainly nobody near his face as he dives over, so whether there's been a collision somewhere as he regathers the ball I can't tell. No obvious foul play though.
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| Quote ="Old Feller"Did Houghton bust Lilley's nose trying to stop him scoring his try?
Should that also merit a further look by the disciplinary people?
The end result is no different to both the Watt's & Ablett offence.'"
What should've merited a further look at the time was the knees in back of Keinhorst as he went over for his try. No different to the one on Ratchford by Farrell in my opinion, which resulted in an 8 point try.
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| Both got no charge...
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| at what age will burrow lose his faculties
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| Slow clap to the match review panel.
Open slather lads. Cock your arms back, take aim and fire.
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| Protecting the confidence of a relatively new referee?
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| They gave Keinhorst a caution for a tackle on Liam Watts, can somebody refresh my memory?
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| Quote ="DHM"Protecting the confidence of a relatively new referee?'"
If that even came into the consideration, all three members of the MRP need to be packed up and sent on their way.
I'd hate to think we were sliding back into the bad old days where shots to the head were an accepted part of the game.
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| Quote ="ls28_rhino"They gave Keinhorst a caution for a tackle on Liam Watts, can somebody refresh my memory?'"
No idea. 64th minute, but can't recall a penalty being given or anyone passing comment during the game.
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| Damn, I don't think I recorded it either.
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