No way was it best time possible, but it was neither a bad time too. That was why I posted a thread quite critical of the preparation/attitude going into the season the next day and got slated for it....yet low and behold things proceeded to get worst.

As I said on another thread, Warrington were focused on 2016 by mid-August. We were still fighting for 2015 success until the 2nd weekend in October and then patting ourselves on the backs for several weeks after. They've got their act together now but Warrington's first few weeks after Sandow got injured was the best possible time to play them, nilled by Hudds and shocking vs Saints.

Spot in AG.

When Lilley made his first long interception break ending up in the right centre position there was no sign of lazy Watkins, in fact the supporting players were JJB and another forward while Kallum jogged up late. It is precisely this lack of effort and involvement on attack at a time when the team needs the senior players to show up that needs pointing out. He hadn't made a clean break in the last three matches and in two of those he hasn't made a tackle bust either.

Some say he should get the ball earlier but as Jon Wells pointed out he is making no effort to get into space or adopt a good running line like Keinhorst does when the young SO is struggling and needs colleagues to present a target.

Now if he too is carrying an injury which is limiting his running then I apologise but I have no knowledge of this.

A few weeks ago I plotted a path that I expected Lilley to follow - only time will tell whether that prediction comes true.

Did you place on record your view of his career path? Would you care to state or restate it here. I see him as lower reaches of SL (achieving this currently ironically with Leeds) and as opposition coaches begin to target him defensively he's still got it all to prove.



Not sure I did say the 'not a winger' comment. I did agree with you that he had some good attributes while also pointing to concerns I have had on most occasions I've seen him play 1st grade.




Yes, I do question his 'relative' bravery as it relates to playing the game - one of the toughest on the planet. Body on the line stuff, not convinced I'm seeing that yet.



Is Golding a full-back? Taking the high bomb is sort of what you require your full-back to do in those circumstances. I noted on one of his takes he needlessly jumped from the field of play and conceded a drop out when IMO the ball actually could have been taken on the full in-goal.

Does the name Nathan Graham mean anything to you - Golding under the high ball on Friday reminded me of a sunny day trip to Wembley '96



No, I would imagine you wouldn't on a single isolated drop compared to Friday. I haven't seen a lot of Golding and on this thread I asked what's his preferred position and do so again, is he a full-back?



Seventeen sounds a high number for any full-back to make - have you verified that particular stat?

Before I have a look for myself (if I still have the recording) which two were the try savers? One on ones?

Well whatever his position, and at the moment I am also unsure on fullback, he has just signed a new five year deal the other week, yet to be announced, so he needs to be staking a claim.

Give the lad a chance , no fullback in the world would have taken all those bombs , the best kicker in super league and the worst stadium to deal with them , yes he made mistakes and needs to concentrate on his positioning but i certainly do no see a lack of courage but what i do see is loads of potential

probably get shot down here but i fail to see any serious potential in Golding, especially as a full back.in no way am i blaming him for the dropped balls, you are right in your assessment there.He may prove me wrong in time we will see, i would like to see him given a go in the halves at some point though, if we end up in middle 8s that would be a chance to see what he can so there.

What is it with five year deals at Leeds?

Which reminds me...

It's been a while since Ryan Hall's latest five year deal has been announced.

Oops!

I believe the agent for Ashton, is also the agent for Hall. And indeed a couple of the first year under 19's. His advice to the under 19's was that Hall made the biggest mistake ever in signing his five year deal at Leeds, and the player has regretted it each year since. Not because he doesn't want to be here, but because when he signed it he had the world at his feet, with $400k offers from the NRL, but signed up to £95k per year with Leeds. His advice to the under 19's is, never sign a long term deal until it is one of your last. Maybe the opposite to that reasoning is exactly why Leeds do these five year deals, cheaper at younger.

95k a year, living in Leeds. Poor Ryan Hall.

What an odd story to make up

Which 5 year deal for Hall are we talking about here because he's signed a few, like the guy himself said news on his last one.....

"I have always signed long-term contracts with the club," the 26-year-old told the Rhinos website.

"I never had any intention of going anywhere, but it is nice to feel that the club want me."

Seems plausible and goes some way towards explaining why Ryan Hall has signed several five year deals and usually within a year or two of the previous one.

RL is a very short career (unless you're on steroids and such) and five year contracts are way too inhibiting career wise, particularly so when arranged by you know who, when they know the meaning and implications of certain words but cannot spell them, even when coHerSing others into signing away their freedoms

Which one do you think?

Duh!

Well it would be quite hard for him to regret the one he signed in 2014 'every year since' considering we are only at the beginning of 2016.

And he can't have regretted the one he signed in 2012 that much considering he did the same thing again in 2014.

The one he signed in 2010 was only for 4 years so it can't be that one.

Either way, signing 14 years worth of contracts in 5 and a bit years seems an odd thing to do for someone who thinks long-term contracts are 'the biggest mistake ever'

Why would he regret his latest one (signed in 2014 I believe?) If he'd have signed for only a couple of seasons then he could be OOC at the end of this year or next and going by how he's played recently and with Handley coming through then his next offer quite possibly is lower or they even go with the idea of moving him on.

Why would he regret his 2014 5 year deal and not his 2012 5 year deal?

If Hall's agent is telling Golding and other youngsters this and presumably he'd have Hall tell Golding this also then why has Golding gone ahead and signed a new 5 year deal? Likewise Stevie Ward has signed 5 year deals at the end of 2012 and 2015, Singleton and Hardaker 4 years. They clearly aren't listening to him.

Sounds more like an agent more interested in himself and his finances rather than the players interests and long term security.

I was quite clear to say "when he had the world at his feet". Did he have that in 2014? I would say he had lost the same opportunities at that time, hence going for security.

This is the advice his agent has given to new youngsters. I am therefore presuming the regret is felt by both parties, him and Hall. It was never meant as a dig.

Compared to double that living in Sydney, Brisbane or Melbourne - no wonder he is having regrets

So Hall regretted his decision so much in 2012 that he 'regretted every year since', and his response was to do the same thing 2 years later. What an odd thing to do.

It seems even stranger when you remember that Halls contract didnt expire in 2012, he was already contracted for another 2years at that point. In fact prior to the expiry of the 4 year contract Hall signed in 2010, he signed 2 new 5 year contracts.

Im not sure where the opportunity cost comes in here. He wouldnt have been able to move between 2012 and 2014 anyway. He was contracted for those season before he signed either of his 5 year deals.

He's never had any interest in moving to Australia though. If he did he could've gotten a gig over there.

Cost of living there is double what it is over here too.

Still, I'd take it for a lifestyle spent mostly outdoors as opposed to indoors.

Oh it'll definitely be felt by his agent who would love his client to be making big and more money elsewhere. That'll be why he'll go around telling young players not to sign up for too long.

Yes he could, and with big money, hence the regret. Not because he wanted to leave Leeds, which he didn't and chose not.

Instead of looking at his contract and why signed, flip it and look at why did Leeds offer an extended contract when he was already under one.

I don't know what the economic living situation is like in sydney melbourne or brisbane, but as far as england goes 95k and leeds is a cushty deal. Of course if hall was living in london 95l would be peanuts. He'd barely be able to afford a box on the side of the road next to a crack house. Besides he has a young family, would they haven't wanted to upsticks? The security of a long deal on decent money, i doubt he regrets much.

I don't think I ever said elsewhere. I just said his advice is don't sign long term until it is one of your last. Mid to late twenties he was saying. I believe Ablett is with the same guy, and he actually took that vet advice and got bigger money on the lon germ one he did.

I also never said I agree with the advice either, hence whi wasn't saying it has a dig. However, those guys would kniw a damn more than me with those sort of deals.

Not when he had the world at his feet. Not sure why that bit keeps getting missed.