you know what i meant. it was a fantastic achievement but the squad needed strengthening. instead it was same old,

We've gone from a team that we would expect to be in the top 2 for the whole season to a team that we hope makes the top 8 and won't make the top 4. You can't be on top the whole time and I expected that after winning three in a row theat this team would take a breather and we would see big players coming through and a couple of quality key signings. We're not far off in the backs and the halves are as good as ever (if McD would stop f*****g about with Burrow at hooker

), but the pack is looking poor and gets rolled too often. When they do the business and compete we can beat anyone ( a few quick PTB's yesterday were all that was needed for Burrow, Webb, Sinny and McGuire to rip Bradford to shreds), but that is happening less and less and less. How many times can we hope to see "one last big effort from Peacock, Kylie, JJB etc". Last years GF should have been a swansong for a lot of that pack and then we go and ask Kylie to play another two seasons (this and next).

Largely agree...but we are always being told that props don't really mature and do the business untill later in their careers - very late 20's and early 30's - by that reckoning shouldn't the current crop be in their prime although I guess perhaps Kylie and JP may be just getting past their prime and hitting their respective Sell By dates!

Are you brave enough to say Kirke is in his prime?

Kirke may in fact be 'in his prime' but it doesn't follow that he's any good!!

He's playing better than Griff.

I'm not as down on Kirke as many posters on here seem to be. I reckon he can and often does make a worthwhile contribution to the cause. I do however agree that he could and should offer more than he actually does and he should do it on a more regular basis. As for Griffin I'm not yet 'getting' what it is he's supposed to be bringing to the party.

But then I don't really 'get' the Lunt loan deal - he looks pretty ordinary to me. Although having said that it does seem that McShane is moving in the direction of Lawford (as I first feared) rather than in the direction of Buderus (which we all hoped he would)

I thought he was meant to bringing the work-load with ball in hand. Getting through the drives and metres, but its not really happening. Especially of late. At the start of the season I thought he was solid enough, a good base to develop from. But that hasn't happened and his performances have dropped off over the past couple of months. Resulting in limited game time. He's not quick to do the 'dirty metres', those clearing yards that are so vital. His defence has always been suspect, unorthodox and concrete feet like, so needs to be hitting the straps with ball in hand (if I was an opposition coach I would be telling the halves to run just to the edge of him all night long). Which isn't happening at the moment. A spell out of the team, a time to review where he's at could be a good move. For me it could be the pressure of playing for a big club. With iconic props alongside him (JP/TMFMISL/Hulk) he may be waiting for them to do the damage rather than taking a strangle hold of the game himself.

As you point out it's not really 'happening' for Griffin (and therefore his contribution seems somewhat difficult to 'pick up' on) you might think with an ex-prop as coach that getting the best out of Griffin would be both a priority and something he could do a really good job on. Not really happening though is it...

Not sure what the management is expecting of McShane? His performance in the WCC was right where you would want it to be. Last year he improved and got more consistant with repeat games, obviously they were limited last year with Buderus and new hooker Rob Burrow, but this year he should have been given a real chance - not dropped or rotated for no reason. I have no idea why we loan out or ignore two perfectly good young 9's and rent in a desperately ordinary one to play alongside the man who should be our 7 (or to just sit on the bench while the rest of the forwards run out of gas against St Helens). I suspected McDermott was struggling last year, the relief shown when the players dug deep and saved his job in the back third of the season was plain to see, but this year it's falling apart and some of the decisions being made are going to potentially cost the club for years to come.
I like the guy, but if I hear him moan once more after a match about "the state of the game in general" then I'll be forced to suggest that perhaps he'd be better of as a league administrator than a SL coach.

For me McDermott is like the coaching version of Brent Webb, you do get some good things from him but you get a lot of head scratching annoying moments, and you wish that he wouldn't open his mouth so often.

Fair call Printer it's as though he's trying to prove something at times and looks a right c#-# doing it.

Perhaps he simply saw enough of McShane around training to 'take a view' and despite one or two strong showings it was clear to him that McShane wasn't up to the job he specifically wanted him to do at this time. But having given him a long term contract it's clear that BM rates him/thinks he will have what it takes - just not yet though.

I think BM probably does have some very trenchant views about the game in general and its future. Not sure he really has got the hang of 'working the media' though and can come across as overly grumpy/inarticulate/underprepared for their almost always daft questions.

I am reasonably happy with Brian Mac for the simple reason I have been present at the breaking of several false dawns. Step forward and take a bow messers bamford ,Laughton Reily etc etc. we spent lots of money for a limited amount of success .many is the time mrs backwoodsman and myself and a host of others went to the likes of widnes,saints and wigan to see us get a good hiding.
So our recent success with the hands of Paul Caddick and GH on the tiller is very pleasing indeed.

It's like a carbon copy of last season in terms of head scratching performances and fans turning on mcdermott.

Next weeks game is massive. Wiagn are the best team in the competition at the moment. If leeds win they can look to kick on and challenge for a top 4 place. Win the game in hand and we'll be right in contention.

Lose and it's getting more and more difficult to make up the ground.

Recent league results against hudds, hull and saints have really set us back. If we'd won 2 of those we'd be right in there around the top 3 and no one would be batting an eyelid.

in my view this squad is no longer capable of finishing top 4. they are not good enough or strong enough to be consistant.
it wouldn't shock me to me them win the semi v wigan as they can turn it on for a big game.
the squad needed freshening up last year. a top quality hooker, second row and centre were needed. we signed two, decent , but nothing special props.
hence the papering over the cracks comment

I think I am stating the obvious, losing buderous and senior,two top class players and not replacing them like for like has dropped us down the pecking order somewhat.

Oh dear...

This thread may be busy again tonight.

For once i agree with the majority of you on here, he has to go. Your team were well beaten by us. I thought Leeds were bad against the Saints but tonight you were even worse.

It's all well and good beating the average clubs like Leeds and Saints, just wait until you come up against the mighty Wire.

The year of the Wolf I guess?





Wire are not a big club and both Leeds & St Helens have far more history than Wire could wish to have. Get back to under achieving

Wire are bigger than St Helens and at least as big as Leeds.

The only club in the country I will accept are bigger than us is Wigan. (through gritted teeth)

Will hold you to that, make sure you PM me when you lose and accept you were beaten by a better team. I think you peaked last season and are now on the slide.

Leeds: 8 Championships, 11 Challenge Cups, 3 World Club Challenges
St Helens: 12 Championships, 12 Challenge Cups, 2 World Club Challenges
Warrington: 3 Championships, 7 Challenge Cups, 0 World Club Challenges

My point exactly.....When were Wires championships 1890 something ?