Bats who is marquee? Newman Croft and….?

Our aim has to be to build a better squad than Wigan Saints Wire or Cats, simply put. They seem to manage these signings…

I understand that our Marquee players are Croft and Newman, you’re only allowed two according to the RFL website. I think it’s next year when the rules change?

[urlhttps://www.rugby-league.com/salary-cap#:~:text=Marquee%20Player%20%E2%80%93%20Each%20Super%20League,75%2C000%20if%20Club%20Trained)%3B[/url

There we go then that’s one extra. We need to use it. Maybe with AMT backing we can.

Quite.

Sezer's main issue at Leeds wasn't that he was playing badly at Leeds. It was that he was barely playing at all.

Going nowhere under him, but GH wont admit the mistake after making such a big deal about getting this appointment right at the time.

Soft, weak, dumb, short cut rugby, the exact opposite of proven successful rugby league.

Despite the mental gymnastics on here, our best forward last year was Walters, and We've replaced him with Goudemond, our best back last year was Macdonald, we've replaced him with Momorovski, both huge downgrades. Frawley is just as useless as most of us knew he was and resigning Fusitua has proved just as stupid as most of us knew it would be.

Cant remember which famous coach said ' if you start listening to the fans, you will soon be sat with them' true 99% of the time, Leeds would actually be better off if they listened to the sensible ones,our decision making has been so poor

Unfortunately, the Soft, weak, dumb, shortcut rugby dosnt just stop with the first team, we're going to waste another crop of talented players further down if we dont buck our ideas up

It was Wayne Bennett, and he's right more often than he's wrong.

We need to be sounding out serious candidates and getting our house in order for a change at the end of this year if not sooner. I'm also concerned about the progress of the kids, perhaps more so than the next couple of years of first team. It would be criminal if we wasted this crop of kids that are on their way through by not giving them the best possible chance to lead us into a new era of success.

To be honest, I am quite concerned that the longer he stays, the more damage he will cause.

We are clearly short of a few good forwards, however, I remain of the view that with the right coach, this team is good enough to be in the top 4.

I could be wrong here as I don't watch Huddersfield or the players overly much, however, I always feel like Yates / Wilson would be the type of players we need. Go about their business quietly and get the job done without being mega earners.

We don't control the development of players. A club provides an environment within which players can thrive and achieve their potential. Ultimately it is the player themselves, always, who decides to work hard at training, to work hard at their diet, to be disciplined and give their best. It is ultimately up to the players to find the advice and help they need.

Leeds provides a coaching team, nutritionalists, and some of the best training facilities in the UK game.

Sometimes a player will really kick on from showing promise at junior level and sometimes not, it's the way of things. Even in the golden era, the vast majority of juniors fell by the wayside and never cemented a place in first grade.

How many players in the Leeds 17 are home grown? And you're looking at around a decade of youth development work there. I think the answer is 6 players. Since well before Rohan Smith's time.

This is an interesting post. The coach and the players are catch 22 - better the coach the better the players they attract. It is no shock to anyone that the NRL players we attract can't get regular games in the NRL. Is Fasituia going to play ever again - how did he get a three year contract?

The idea that we could attract a top NRL forward with a coach like Smith is laughable. They way we treated Furner doesn't look good - if you were a top coach would you take a chance on a club like Leeds? Has Smith even moved his family here? Compare how Saints select and look after overseas coaches?

The culture looks all wrong - no honesty or belief - this is both a personal and coaching issue - in any team culture each participant needs to do his job to the best of his ability - there isn't a player who can look in the mirror and say honestly I am giving my best.

The players don't look fit/strong - again compare to Saints/Wigan/Catalans - physically they look second rate. Those that go to a gym know you can give it what you have or just go through the motions - too many going through the motions.

GH has been a superb CEO but its time for a change in the whole rugby set up - it just isn't working - a major reset needs to happen. The idea that JJB is anywhere near the top of an elite sports team should be a major concern to all stakeholders.

Of course the players themselves are the ones ultimately responsible for their own development, I don't think anyone would argue against this, but the club are responsible for providing the best possible environment for that to happen and the biggest factor here is coaching. Just like the player can be negligent if they don't work hard enough or have the right attitude, the club can be negligent if they don't provide the best possible coaching or facilities.

Individually the players benefit from the standards that are set and their achievements against them, but collectively the club benefits far more by having the right people in the coaching and support structure that realise the potential of the group. This is where I'm shining the torch, are we providing the best possible coaching for the kids coming through? I'm mindful that mattsrhinos1978 is more knowledgeable here than I am (and I suspect probably you too) of the current detailed situation. Like you (I suspect), I'd see the immediate situation is the responsibility of the coaches, but the longer term responsibility if that of the CEO.

It’s all irrelevant now. Croft a quality player. Let’s get some speed around him and dummy runners….….

Sport is cyclical anyway, and we have no right to win just because we are a big club.

I think my issues are with the penny pinching and the half arsing. I'm sure Leeds struggled genuinely having COVID at the same time as new stadium development, it wasn't great timing for sure. However I have said before, I think the whole strategic approach to maintaining success after the Goldens was just all wrong. Wrong signings, wrong coaches, bad results.

I'm hoping with a new major sponsor, it wasn't just about making a couple of big signings in Ackers and Croft. We look like we need 2-3 more in that mould, plus maybe some further investment in coaching too.

For me, personally, I want to see how to side goes over the next 4-5 games. If we're still stuttering I'll consider joining the Smith Out crew, but I'm still thinking we're a top-6 side with a chance of finding some form later in the year and even challenging in the play-offs.

I agree with all the above - the facilities at Leeds seem to be at the correct level - Kirkstall has been used by numerous international teams in the past. It is obvious to all the coaching shortcomings - but if GH can't attract anything better what do you do? If good assistants in the NRL are advised not to move GH's options are limited, hence Smith. He offered Peter Green who sadly declined. There isn't an English coach - Peat apart - that I would have at Leeds so where do you go?

For me this is a development issue - we should have developed a coach that was ready to take the team on - Burrow perhaps - but he was in the earliest stages of his development. This inability to develop from within isn't a Smith issue this is a Leeds issue.

The inner workings of the rugby side of the business needs a complete overhaul to compete with the best in SL.

Yep 100% Matts is the guru here, I just try to watch some games.

But this is kindof my point, most of us, maybe not even Matts, is truly close enough to the club and the players to know whether the coaching and support is great or not. We see the results on the field of course. I'm not convinced myself about playing sides which are too young, and not trying to win fixtures with the best sides we can put out at each age group - there are arguments for and against.

The point I'm making is, you're all blaming RS like crazy but where is the evidence that Leeds were better at this before him?

The success we had was built on a particular crop of talented lads that mostly came through under Uncle Smith, Tony I think. Then Brian Mac came in and militarized them into a tough as boots bunch which won loads.

Youth development takes maybe 5 years or more to show any real results in first grade, what we're reaping now was sown well before Rohan Smith's time. Again, only 6 players in the current Leeds 17 were produced through our own academy system over around the last decade.

So which coach / coaching have we ever had before which successfully got high quality youth through and performing? The evidence doesn't back the argument that RS is the root cause for me.

RS is not to blame for the last five or six years level of performance or the lack of young players development within the club. He is responsible though for tactics and playing styles which is why he is under increasing focus.
He did a great job clearing out a lot of players that the majority felt where not good enough. The bulk of the current squad now are players that have been signed under his tenure or club trained however we seem to be utilising the same tactics as we were with last years squad! That highlights 3 questions?
Are the incoming players any better than the outgoing ones? Are they performing at the level that they did at their previous clubs!
Are club trained players developing and becoming a better version of themselves.
Do we need to approach coaching differently or employ different tactics?
On the current evidence you would have to say the answer to the above is that we must do better.
Yes we are a couple of players short of challenging at the top level but we should be strongly placed to be best of the rest with the squad we have on paper.
To achieve that the coaching and tactics need to change and thats in RS compass. He has done a lot of good things but he needs to take a look in the mirror and recognise that our tactics are not working and player development is regressing because of them.

Sezer managed to be disappointing for multiple coaches in SL, not sure what the point is here.

this is what I really don't get. smith, who started as an analyst, studies games and think his tactics are working. they clearly arent. bielsa was the same.

I'm genuinely not sure whether it's RS tactics or players lacking form and execution at the moment.

Looking at the season so far as a whole, there is still a chance we might be around that "best of the rest" position. We got spanked at home by Wire who are top of the table - I didn't love that myself, but at the moment it's an anomaly. We have stuttered and made errors in most games so far, and it hasn't been as good as we all wanted yet.

Huddersfield is a good test. At home again, they have a big CC game to navigate, whereas all we have to do is get fit and practice for them for 2 weeks. They will challenge us and play at us like Wire did, we're gonna have to come up with the answers this time.

Think the fact Newman is marquee, shows what a mess we have gotten into…..

I want Rohan to succeed at Leeds. He's done a huge job rebuilding the squad, junior development seems more on track and we seem a lot more professional as a club than under Agar.

But in the end the first team just has to do better.

Its starting to feel like last year, when we kept waiting for the team to turn the corner. We're hearing the same excuses - we weren't really that far off, just a few things went against us, we were in the contest, injuries, the mean other team keep slowing down the game, the referee isn't controlling the game the way we want, its raining, etc etc. We lost 34-8 at home to a team missing some of their best forwards. I must have missed the memo where it was decided that was an acceptable result, or that after the huge outlay on new players a 50% win ratio almost a third of the way into the season is OK.

I don't think its terminal yet, but if Smith doesn't have a serious rethink about some of the things we're doing then I don't think he will be here for the long-term, because I don't think dry weather or a fully fit squad alone will make much difference.

Slightly off topic but this week’s Saints -Warrington May give an indication of the true league form. Warrington far superior to us last week , be interesting to see how they shape up against Saints. Personally I think Saints, Wigan and Catalan are miles ahead of the rest of the pack. Sincerely hope it’s not another Saints-Wigan grand final. A final sobering thought ,our points for is the same as Leigh who have only won one match.

How many players did we produce who starred in the first team during the golden decade 2004 - 2015?
Senior, Peacock, Ellis, McDermott, Furner, Poaching, Lauitiiti, Webb. Bai,Luluia McDonald, Buderus, Moone. Plus many others who were None home produced.

Sinfield, McGuire, Watkins, Hall, Burrow all top quality and Yes there were some others like like Diskin Jones- Bishop, Bailey, Smith, Abblett (plus a few others) who were a level below also Gale and McShane who got away.
Great Rhinos players all but not so many big home academy produced players as you would imagine.
Obviously some names have been missed for whom I apologise and of course it is only my opinion which I am sure many will question.
My point being we probably have not produced as many big name internationals as might be imagined. I do believe we have a current crop from scholars to U18’s who just might come through and star in future first teams. So we are still amongst the best (certainly this side of the Pennines) at bringing on young talent.

But the way we play is not an anomaly!
Its been the same for the last 18 months its just the level of mistakes and player confidence that fluctuates!
We spend the majority of games defending in our own half ,flog our backs by expecting them to constantly bring the ball off their own line and rely on broken play to create scoring opportunities.When we make an error or concede a turnover because of the way we play it is usually in our half. The top teams do this in the opposition 20m.
This season we are 2nd for most team tackles made behind London and that tells you all you need to know.
I am not necessarily advocating getting rid of Rohan but if you keep doing the same thing you will across a season get a similar series of results.

That's my view as well. We're getting killed by mistakes because of where we're making them, as much as the number.

If we keep trying to play the same way we'll keep getting the same results. It works so sporadically that we can never build momentum across games. So confidence is always a bit brittle as well, and cannot get us across the line as it should.