The RU and NRL markets that once existed have now basically closed and are closed to such an extent that any cap increase would never be enough to re-open them.

Fans who want a cap increase never answer where the money is coming from which I find interesting.

The days of certain top clubs stockpiling players on over sized salaries meaning most games ended in total mismatches and one sided scores are in the most part gone. The clubs that did that pretty much all nearly went to the wall that's the last thing we need to return to.

Let's hope as a sport we don't return to the days of clubs overspending and having to sell their grounds to try and survive cos not many teams have that option anymore.

You cant compare SL with other sports I'm afraid. Were never going to be able to compete with other sports financially.

Football can survive with Man City dominating fir years and years. RL cant survive like that and has to cut its cloth accordingly and grab our slice of the pie that it can from TV deals.

The Cap can be raised but it will go to the same player pool generally. People who believe otherwise are making themselves look out of touch with the sport.

Clubs overspending and having to sell their grounds? These grounds closed have in the main all happened since the cap was introduced. How many clubs have posted profits since the cap was introduced?

Despite this, we now have an inferior product, poor value, and we are no better off, as people like you stating above there is no money.

There is plenty of money for the right product. Even sodding Netball is growing in this country. People cry out for top sports. Companies are dying to invest their marketing into the right product. Kids want to play sports, but they dream of where the money is. Everything is there if it is backed right. Instead of taking the defeatist acceptance attitude, that that is all we have.

The NRL increased their cap significantly the other year. Look what it’s done for them. Stop holding clubs back that can give the product the country craves, and start rewarding them for it instead.

How many clubs have posted a profit since the cap was introduced????? That's my bloody point. Clubs cant afford the cap now how the hell would increasing it help? Goodness me.

Tbe talent pool no matter the cap isn't increasing. Union players and NRL players will still get more money in union and NRL. The contracts will go up, the debt will increase the businesses will fail. You can pay player A £50k or £75k but hes still player A.

I ask for the third time....where would the money come from to fund the salary cap increase? You have hit the nail on the head by admitting the clubs have no money.

There are more things to do these days for families there are more choices for people. The salary cap isn't impacting junior participation. Your seriously not telling me that when little Jonny says he wants to play RL at aged 8 his family are saying "no son cos if you make the grade your salary wont be good enough".

The clubs have to be run as businesses in my opinion. I would love these great athletes that play our game, which I find disappointing that you criticise them so readily, deserve to be paid much more but the game simply cannot afford it.

The NRL increased their cap because they signed a billion dollar TV deal and could afford to increase their cap mot because the game was struggling financially as our is.

Well said

Completely head in the sand there Marty. And I never said all clubs had no money, I said some, and those who don’t shouldn’t be bringing the rest down like we are.

And if the cap works, what relevance is the point on profit? You say you don’t want to go back to that, then you want to stay as we are with clubs not making profit. Indeed goodness me.

I gave you the answer on where money could come from. But it won’t happen with the product we now have, which to be frank is the worst in the game for the last 30 years. It’s all about the product. And I am not referring to Leeds, I am referring to all. Top team in our comp this year, look untouchable, and at the same time really poor.

You want to run like businesses? Not been disrespectful but do you understand business? There isn’t a successfull business around who has followed what you suggest.

I agree with Marty generally. The lowest NRL club is still significantly stronger then the strongest SL club financially. The NRL is a premier sport in Aus.

There is absolutely no way even Leeds could afford to assemble a squad on a par with an NRL side now, or in the foreseeable future.

Another elephant in this room is the marquee ruling, which blows the salary cap apart already. How many clubs can afford to use it now? Even Leeds have pushed it to sign players who were on the outer in the NRL. Let’s get real here.

It’s really chicken and egg: money the fund quality, quality to bring the money in.

What does the NRL have to do with our Comp though? The only relevant point is that the NRL increased their cap and it enhanced their competition, and restricted those leaving to union.

What we need to concentrate on is our own, and trying to get a quality product to ensure it keeps going, and has a future. Something very much at risk. Whilst ever we continue ignoring this, the longer it becomes to fix. Much the same as how Leeds is run. The only way of obtaining quality investment is speculating first and give those investing a product worthy. And I include fans as an investor.

Gotcha to invest/speculate you have to have something to invest/speculate with. You have already said not many teams run at a profit.

You said the NRL increased their cap massively and it hasn't done them any harm but they had a billion dollar TV deal signed. They didnt increase their cap to gamble on their future they increased it cos the teams could afford it.

To say the NRL has nothing to do with our competition when so many players from each team in SL is filled with ex NRL players seems ludicrous. The top rated players can now stay in the NRL because the cap has been raised and so the quality of import to SL is lower so it has a big impact on our competition.

Any increase on our cap would be a financial gamble and still would not attract top Union players, would not attract top NRL players and would stop SL players wanting to go to the NRL so the player pool wouldn't increase.

Ever since you and I have watched RL the game has been dieing and on its last legs yet it's still going.

Our problem is that NRL isn’t a spectator sport it’s a TV sport. Aussie Rules is a spectator sport not a TV sport, that’s why you see the huge crowds at AFL but the TV money goes to NRL. Superleague is really a spectator sport and until it becomes a TV sport you can forget salary cap increases.

There is a few inaccuracies there Marty.

Just because teams do not run at a profit, does not mean they can not speculate or improve the product. It doesn’t revolve around profit. Changing what the spending is on for a start. This is where business knowledge comes in, and pick up on your point of should be run like a business.

I didn’t say the NRL increased its cap and not done any harm. You have read the wrong angle there. I said they had increased their cap and its has enhanced the game over there. Because now they can afford to raid other comps and other sports, and keep their top players from the opposite.

The point on the NRL having nothing to do with our comp wasn’t in terms of how much finance they have. As long as we are paying our own players what they are worth then we will succeed. It isn’t about bringing Aussies over, it’s about keeping our own.

I completely disagree on your point of what the cap wouldn’t do, and believe it is without any foundation, and defeatist.

I have been watching since 78, and I disagree that the game has always been dying. But I strongly believe that I have never seen such a poor quality across all its teams as I see now. I just watched a really poor Huddersfield team hammer an Hull team that has recently beat two of the top teams. That Hull team would have struggled to beat a league 1 team today. It’s embarrassing to see this. It needs to change.

We can all argue about why where and how but the responsibility to improve the game/brand/clubs lays purely with the Clubs themselves and the RFL.
We can't keep having separate factions to start with the SL RFL and the rest of the game need to be under 1 controlling body imo.
Of course when negotiating tv deals and sponsorship the contracts will be separate from the SL CC and lower leagues but the sport as a whole needs to be going in 1 direction as one.
My own pov is IF Clubs can show proof they can afford to invest more in their squads then so be it there is no way Teams should be held back if they can afford to be better.
I'd also re-think the imports set up i.e 5 overseas allowed and that's it no non fed loophole etc.
A minimum of 18 home grown players in SL Clubs 35 man squads.
Also certain "rules2 need addressing i.e this guessing about a try or not just a simple ? to the VR Try yes or no. Also this obstruction rule is a farce as is the ptb and players diving.
VR at EVERY game no need for the we cant afford it SKY sponsor us so get them to provide the cameras the off duty Refs/ex players can do VR duties.

Realistically we can't increase the cap far enough to sign top flight NRL or RU players en masse. Even doubling the cap would mean we might pick up a few better NRL players but not much else beyond what the current marquee rules allow. The main difference might be in stopping players leaving for the NRL/RU.

So if we were to increase the cap, where would the money go apart from lining the pockets of existing players? I don't see any point in increasing the cap significantly without forcing clubs to spend on junior development, because that's where we're going to get 90% of our players from.

If you told any SL side they have 100% more to spend today, the first thing that would happen is all the existing players would have their hands out wanting rises. For zero benefit to the game. That's why you have to be very careful about increases and how they are managed.

Stop talking sense. This isn't the place for that.

At the moment it seems like we have become an active nursery for the NRL. Young lads coming through are hoping to raise their profile enough to get an offer from Aus. That’s actually pretty good for the national side in the medium term, but I’m not sure how sustainable that leaves domestic RL.

End of the day, if we want a competitive sport, older community-based clubs are going to have to increase interest. Otherwise for me we’re back into franchising.

Due to the demographic and commercial landscape in England, RL has some very serious challenges. The fixes are complex and in places too big.

One thing the game does need is Leadership with one vision, rather than a collection of egos waving their willies and acting in short term self interest.

The game is poorly run from the top in this country.

At the grass roots level there is passion and dedication to the game. At the top level there is no vision, no planning and no money.

The professional game is in a battle to stay alive in this country in the next decade

I could say "t'was always thus" - but I do think there is a bigger threat now. RU is SO much stronger than is was 10 years ago, and the NRL is streets ahead also (relative to Super League). If we get further left behind financially, we really will struggle. Add into the mix the change in aspirations for youngsters who might otherwise play the sport, and it's a toxic combination.

I'll probably get rinsed for this, but I wonder whether the NRL should get involved in the wider game. Both Australia and the UK could benefit from closer integration in a host of areas (junior development, referees development, coaching development, marketing...).

And again back to topic, losing Leeds from SL is not going to be a step forward in any strategic sense for the game.

i don't think you'll get rinsed, but that statement fails to recognise that the NRL is only bother about Origin, and then the NRL.

SL can eff off, Internationals can eff off as well.

The problems are no one at the RFL are good enough to Market SL none of them have the relevant experience, knowledge or expertise to market this great game. They are not prepared to take the necessary risks that are needed to take this game to the next level. The English premier league walked away from the football league and have never looked back they are now the richest league in world sport with everyone wanting to buy a piece of the action. Someone needs to take a risk, long term growth will come from the UK not Canada and the US. Scrap the Salary cap or at least increase it by doubling the cap. Clubs with small crowds they need to market themselves not rely on the SKY money why should teams with an average crown of between 4k and 5k hold back teams with crowds of 12k plus. Its time to take some risk take the blinkers off market SL properly and let the teams who can afford it buy better quality players from the NRL and not having to settle for the cream of the crap brigade.
for those who simply say that any increase in the salary cap would be paid into the players pockets, well I do not mind paying top quality players good money, but to pay good money to mediocre players then the clubs only have themselves to blame.
I have spoken to a number of SL CEO's they are desperate to keep the Salary cap and it just so happens to be , these guys run the teams with the small crowds, these are the same people who are keeping SL in the doldrums and are responsible for the teams buying players from the NRL at the lower end of the scale.
All this does by keeping the Salary cap is dragging everyone down to the bottom of the barrel and we can see that this year on the pitch.

There needs to be more clauses to the cap if its going to stay, id like to see somthing that rewards clubs for bringing there own players through, maybe 3 home grown players nominated at the start of each season who dont count against the cap. That along with the Marquees potentially gives you 5 quality players who would only count 300k against the cap and rewards clubs for getting the youth through.

Or you could just exempt any player from the cap who has come through your own academy.

End of the day, we can play with the cap how we like but it’s close to being scrapped already with the Marquee rule. We’re already unlevelling the level playing field. You might as well kill it as have an overly convoluted system which costs more to administer than it’s worth.

While no cap atall sounds good in theory, you need the clubs to stick to there means, some of the biggest clubs in the game, including ourselves, have come unstuck when theyv had no one policing what they spend on players. Im not against scrapping it, but it would worry me to a degree. Id prefer a more gradual move towards it, sumthing like what iv mentioned initially then evaluate where we are. Deffinatly think there should be a reward for your own players being brought through. Dont see whats complicated about saying players X,Y,Z are our nominated exemp home grown players for this season.

Dont agree that the Marquee is anywhere near what scrapping the cap altogether would be like, being able to sign a couple of players other clubs might not be able to afford is a lot different to Wigan signing world stars in every position, us trying to keep up, both clubs getting themselves in a royal mess.

I want to see superstars all over superleague but i dont want it if in 5/10 year time most the clubs are bankrupt, im no expert so dont know if they would be, but its a worry imo.

But the Marquee rule has been there a long time. All they have done is make it two instead of one.

Yes but my point is that in theory if Leeds could/wanted to, they could sign Nikorima and Tuamalolo (sp) - and they are talking about making it three. The purpose of the cap was, I think, a) to level the playing field and b) stop clubs gambling on success and going bust in the process.

It’s just worth bearing in mind the knots clubs tie themselves up in trying to comply with the cap (and of course some will try to cheat it), and the significant costs of administering it from the clubs and the governing body.

Personally I’d just rather than not have it at all than have an opaque, administratively burdensome process which has forgotten its original purpose.

Well said Brodie agree completely. They are dragging everyone down

I know what people are saying, but it's important to take a game-wide rather than club-specific view here.

Leeds are probably the richest club in SL, so of course these suggestions play right into our hands and give us a competitive advantage (in theory).

Clubs who aren't as sexy, and are bringing in 3-5k crowds, are going to find it impossible to compete.

I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm on. Maybe you could remove the cap with a franchising system, where other financial checks and balances can be made. If you go down this path though, make no mistake it would be curtains in the top flight for some big name traditional clubs.

Maybe we're coming to a point where the game needs to decide which is the lesser of two evils - try to compete with RU and NRL or remain community and tradition focused. I don't think we can have our cake and eat it unfortunately.