Its not worth replying with any substance to you - there are some on here (that you're eager to sucker in as allies) who seem able to have a rational debate, I'll happily agree and disagree (in parts) with them instead.

Besides which - I think I recognise your posting style. It has a certain familiarity to it.

Can't argue with that.

Fantastic.

Brisbane & G1 have explained why I would keep hold of Diskin over Buderus (If that situation ever happened) and also because Diskin would have 4-5 years to assist McShane, Buderus may only stay 1 more year.

Also if anyone wants to question how important team spirit is in this squad you don't have to look any further than Sinfield's GF speech last year.

They both did very good posts. Both post however paid no attention whatsoever to the here and now, which is where I dissagree with them. They were based purely on past seasons only, even more or less pointed out that it would be accepted to accept a lesser player just for reward purposes.

Surely you don't seriously believe that Diskin could do another 4-5 years? surely it was just a typing error?

He's only 28

How many times have we been told that Senior is past it, that peacock is past it, that Buderus after breaking his leg at 32 was past it.

Individuals are completely different though, so too are positions. We see that with quite a few players.

There's just been 17 or so pages debating Buderus new contract or Diskin, and yes there's been some childish poop, but some reasoned debate also. I got the impression from most that it was agreed despite which way you preferred, that both were reaching the ends of their careers whoever we keep.

No way could Diskin do super league for more than another 2 years, absolutely no way. He might manage a year more than Buderus, but it would be suicide to have him for longer than that.

In your opinion of course, my crystal ball is at the menders so mine wasn't fact

This is an aside to the Buderus/Diskin debate, and I agree that the best teams are more than the sum of their parts, and Leeds have achieved this. But I'm not sure about the comparison of "individual greats" in the Laughton era and now, and think you may be underrating the individuals in our squad.

So while Schofield, Hanley and Iro qualify from the earlier era, Senior and Peacock certainly, Webb and Lauititi probably, and Sinfield and Maguire possibly (they're only "possibles" not "probables". due to widespread anti-Leeds feeling) would all go into the pantheon for a genuinely neutral RL fan. Add to those Gareth Ellis, and the possibility of Hall, Smith and Eastwood going on to achieve far more in the game and you realize that the *parts* are pretty good, which is the primary reason that the sum of the parts has been good too.

I'd have said Diskin has another 2 years without doubt.

After 30 it becomes a bit more debateable, certainly if the sole hooking option, but its at least conceiveable he could go on for 2 years longer than that.

This debates really hit rock bottom now, and scraping the barrell.

I hope to god that fans who pay good money to watch this team home and away do not see the club run the way some posters wish.

It would be like living in the twilight zone.

Are you echoing Gareth's earlier post or is your bottom lip out for some other reason?

Same here, You would have ousted the entire squad at certain points during our treble championship winning run.

G1's post was a worthy contribution and highlights perfectly the team aspect rather than the individual aspect of the sport.

Now I'm just left to wonder what Ian Kirke needs to do to gain acceptance.

You can see some discussion of the comparative merits a couple of pages or so back.

As an outsider, but an RL fan.

Buderus or Diskin is to me a no brainer. Diskin is a player who gives his all for Leeds every time he plays and at 28 yeras of age still has two,three or four top class years ahead of him.
Buderus has been a very good player, but at his age it's not worth the risk of him picking up another injury.

The other thing I'd like to say id that you will need to find another hooker. McShane for me is a very average player. I watched him closely in the U20 game v Wigan and he was completely outplayed by a 17 year old Logan Tomkins, but I guess that's another debate.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Mickey McIlorum heading back to Leeds at some stage and maybe sooner rather than later. he is very much like Diskin in the way he plays the game.

That thought passed my mind earlier on - a young Leeds lad, but with games under his belt and out of contract this year.

Like I said, scraping the barrell. That is back to chidish outbursts. You know that is not true.

We are talking about future here, not past. On what you have just put is just a childish lie if you meant it that way.

I don't want to lower myself to the petty arguments, I thought yesterday was perfectly fine.

It doesn't matter a great deal if a player is twenty-two or thirty-two, injuries will happen although the recovery time would be generally slower with the extra miles on the clock. If Buderus had a history of a recurring problem area (neck, shoulder, knee, ankle, back) then that would become a consideration.



It should be part of the hooking debate. It's an interesting comment you make. I don't think I've seen enough of McShane to form much of an opinion but I haven't been wowed so far by what I have seen, although others that have seen him more appear to be very impressed. Reminds me of a young Dean Lawford.



Reminds me of a young Terry Newton. Currently OOC at the end of the season I believe.

Gotcha, you have just done what you do every time, rubbished other people's opinion's then claim "childishness, agendas, ulterior motives" when anyone does not agree with you.

It's the same every debate, you call people loony, try to rubbish their opinion, you are a bigot.

Me, Puig and the indipendant Rogues has all given our opinion that Diskin could continue at a good SL level for the next 4ish years.

[i"This debates really hit rock bottom now, and scraping the barrell"

"Surely you don't seriously believe that Diskin could do another 4-5 years? surely it was just a typing error?"[/i

If that's your opinion I respect it but you have been wrong plenty of times in the past can you not just accept that we all don't have the same ideas.

I haven't rubbished anybody's opinion. I said the debate had hit rock bottom which in my opinion it had. Am I not entitled to my opinion then that you make out everyone should be, or does it just apply to you?

You came back with



Which is childish, as no bearing to the Diskin/Buderus debate, and of course is a complete lie. This been a complete change from the tone of the thread the day before.

So before trying to get the higher ground take into account your own posts first.

My childish response (which it was) was to you telling me that my opinion was hitting rock bottom.


Thanks.

I think you should think before making such wild predictions. He may be finished at Leeds in 2 years, but even after that he'd still do a good job in SL with another side.

This is obviously assuming that he doesn't pick up a career ending injury

That's been answered and you can't deal with it. You've lost your rag because some people don't agree with you, because the coaching staff at the club don't agree with you and even fans of other clubs don't agree with you.

McShane, who you have championed over Diskin is nothing yet. He's shown average form while on loan to another club. Compare him to Scott Moore who stood out while on loan to Huddersfield and even earned an international call up. He may well develop into a top class player - I can't tell, I'm happy to let the coaches assess him, but I wouldn't dump Matt Diskin for him at this moment and I am going to guess that our management at Leeds haven't even contemplated it.

I've supported Leeds a long time, and for the first 20 odd years the standout feature of the club was it's compulsion to chase success by changeing the squad completely year after year after year. It became like rugby Bingo or Rugby Top Trumps. It didn't work. We got rid of players like Dave Heron far too early in their careers and replaced them with the Gary Divorty's of the World. There was a mentality of many supporters back then that you had to change the team every year and that you could look through the pages of Open Rugby and select from the World Rankings your squad for next year, or as soon as someone in the A team scored a hat trick against Batley A then we should immediately dump a current first team player. The number of players we went through was rediculous - and still we won nothing.
Players like Matt Diskin don't come to this club very often, in team sport - especially rugby - the composition and attitude of a team is as important as the ability levels. Matt is a damn fine player - still - and he brings far more to the table as well. If you want to play rugby Top Trumps, that's fine, we can all go back to the bad old days, but the management have shown consistantly that that is not the current policy. Long may it continue, because if it does, then we will still be racking up trophies for some time to come.