Indeed, I'm absolutely astounded at what he's broadcasting!

As long as you are properly sorry you can come off my naughty step now.

Yer, sort of looked at my phone the next day and was like...."oops"! Won't happen again!

Years ago, I came on to RLFANS once after a fair session (just after I split up from an ex) and started sending Danny all kinds of daft after he'd gone fishing...

He probably still has the screengrabs somewhere!

I agree with G1 and tony.

When you look at the tries, the ''shenton theory'' doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. Whether it caused disruption or not, for me, you're 8 points ahead in a GRAND FINAL with 15 to go, you'ev had 80% posession. You should be closing that off. You should be winning from that position. Saints had players in position to make the tackles and they should have been tackling their bloody hearts out to stop the man.

When the reality hit home that saints, might actually win, they froze. Leeds stepped up made them pay and showed what champions they are.

Leeds completly and utterly own saints in grand finals at the moment.

[urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rleague/11/10/12/manual_164826.html&BID=480[/url

That's better Jon

I'm sure that those sentiments we're Wilkins alone and were not some contrived media spin and from the England camp too?

Fair Play to Wilkin. Its not making a mistake thats the problem its what you do about it that matters.

That may or may not be the case, but at least peace reigns and the England squad can get on with the job in hand, without any silly "Leeds and Saints players hate each other" stories breaking out again.

I think I explained earlier but I'll try again even though I'm a little surprised I'm having to. St Helens (like Leeds) defend with a half-back between centre and wing. On the Saints right edge to begin the game it was (from inside to wing) Soliola, =#FF0000Shenton, Lomax, Makinson.

For this try (after reorganising for Wellens and Shenton leaving the field) it's Dixon, =#FF0000Soliola, Meli, Lomax. In this situation Soliola is defending where Shenton would have been.

Webb runs at Soliola who is drifting out as Leeds have a potential three on two if he doesn't. Soliola has a decision to make whether to stop drifting and commit to Webb (risking the overlap) or stay on his man and trust Dixon's slide defence to collect Webb. Webb throws a little dummy and Soliola's beaten on his inside shoulder as Dixon sliding from the inside is unable to make an effective tackle.

Does Webb score if that's Shenton making the decision instead of Soliola, do Soliola and Shenton (the earlier pairing) communicate and combine better to prevent the gap opening are the unknowns. What is known is that Webb isolates Soliola and scores and Soliola is where Shenton would have been in the defensive line.




The problem caused by Wellens and Shenton's absences is probably most evident on this score. Would the defensive structure such as it was have been in such disarray if Wellens had been out there barking his instructions from the back? Soliola (still deputising in Shenton's position- 3rd man in) makes tackle two (on Jones-Buchanan) and three (on Peacock) and is caught at marker. To make matters worse as Burrow waits at dummy half Meli is dropping back to protect the early kick, you see Burrow look to his right and then a look to the left and that is where he goes. He's seen a disorganised shambles, beaten Moore, Lomax is faced with a three on one, then Meli a two on one and finally Hall is one on one with Makinson. Great, great score but what about the defence.



Great piece of play from Leeds' departing hooker close to the line. Again Soliola is tied up at marker and Buderus targets and beats him from the ruck, draws Lomax creating a potential two on one for Ablett and Hall V Meli. This time the defence is up to prevent the pass but cannot stop Ablett powering over the top of Lomax. I agree that on this try with or without Shenton I fancy Buderus to make the same play and Leeds to score by getting Ablett running over Lomax.



I really don't think anyone has remotely suggested otherwise.

Sorry but I still don't buy it TVOC, you make some very good points but as I said before both Soliola and Dixon had Webb covered, both are full time SL players and Webb managed to squeeze between both to score, nothing at all suggests to me that Shenton would have made any difference.

Saints were all over the place when Burrow made the break but why was the winger so deep?, was he incapable of staying in the defensive line without Wellens on the field to keep reminding him.

Leeds were well on the front foot before Shenton was injured and I don't think for one second that the result would have been any different had he stayed on, he may have saved one of the trys you never know but Saints were never in a position to use the threat of shenton during the last 20mins..

"The threat of Shenton"



TVOC has worked his jedi mind trick on you Tony.

Oooh hark at her.

You're "having to" because a number of posters have disagreed with you. Some have gone to the trouble of explaining why.

Or shall we all just accept your opinion as gospel?

Bailey's biatch Wilkin: ""Ryan's form has been fantastic and it's good to have him in the England team. I spoke to him before we came into camp and there are no issues."

Someone who announced a pre-meditated hissy fit on the intergrity of TMFMISL suddenly falls in line.

What a little bitc-h.

At least have the guts to stand by your dummy spit.

I like the assumed clash of both parties. I haven't heard Ryan Bailey moan about Wilkin, all one way. Wilkin has the problem, he has the same one every year.

Classic Bailey

Sounds like wilkin's filled his pants.

Classic Bailey

In fairness to menstrual Jon it's not the same one, he has a new and unique one after each GF loss.

Yes the press must make a beeline for rentasob

If it was just an opinion without an explanation, I wouldn't expect a living sole just to accept it. Even with an explanation I still don't. I could care less who accepts any of my posts, that's a matter for them.

I was only surprised that Tony didn't appear to appreciate the St Helens defensive formation. Tony's take misrepresented where Shenton (the centre) was defending in the St Helens line, and who defended in his place after the injury.

If you wish to add to the factual part of the discussion then I'm sure you will. I'm always interested to know where I'm going wrong, in your opinion.

You can start by looking at the glass as half full. master that and we'll move on to the next step.

How was it a 'war of words'?
I haven't seen Bailey comment? It's all been one sided drivel from Wilkin, or have I missed something???

Tvoc, your reading of the game is spot on IMO. You describe the tries very, very well, including all the major decisions that defenders had to make, and why. The only trouble is, Shenton's impact on all this is completely hypothetical, so who cares!!



P.S. I'd be interested for your take on the Scott Donald try in 2007 (leaving Wellens face down on the turf). Every time I see this try I maintain that had Webb not pushed on the inside, Wellens would have tackled Donald. My Dad thinks that's a load of rubbish. *Thread drift*

Well done Wilkin for making himself look a bit of a div for the sake of harmony in the England camp. No sarcasm meant there, he's had to do a bit of a back track but I'm happy that he has.

bookies offereing 1000-1 for TMFMISL and wilki to elope and a love fest

apparently they are now best of buddies in the england camp.

However did hear tonight that bailey had been robbed of his previous super league rings in a break in. so you can figure his joy of winning another when so few expected him to do so

how do you know this?

source of information?

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -spat.html www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/oc ... rand-final fyi

www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... -spat.html www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/oc ... rand-final fyi

I'm not sure this is even news anymore.....it was sorted out amicably by the two of them, themselves with minimal intervention by Stevie Mac, they've moved on, so should everyone else. Everyone can be guilty of showing a little too much emotion sometimes, it's always going to happen at times in top class sport.
The point is, it's sorted now, and lets hope the two of them can show the same sort of passion in the England shirt, if they get the chance.

What interests me is who made the phonecall. They clearly spoke after finding out about the call ups. So was it Bailey being the big man for once and making the call or was it Jon Wilkin?