Should McNamara's England touring side avoid losing by a margin of less than 48 points, I assume you'll confirm that not to be the case at all, and furthermore that Tony Smith is the worst ever coach of an England/GB touring side instead?

I'm assuming you've forgotten about his embarrassing RLWC08 record of carnage which included a lot of Leeds players in the squad like Peacock, Sinfield, McGuire, Senior, Burrow, Smith and JJB.

No-one could argue that Graham lacks passion. Personally, I'd agree that he's England's best prop. However, his dummy spits tend to occur in the games in which he's being at his least effective. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single one in which his petulance has had a galvanising effect, either on himself or on his team. Contrast that with Peacock who, in a similar situation, tends to dig deeper. Having said that, it's possible that the captain's role might lead to greater maturity in Graham's on-field demeanour. If so, he's the right choice for me.

Steve Mac failed massively at his long reign at Bulls.

He buckled, he sweated, he was rubbish.

So give him the England gig?

A complete joke. The position is laughable.

We were inept under Smith, I don't know what this 'tard can bring to the party apart from a bigger blow out.

Then look at France's 'coach'.............

European international rugby should be scrapped.

Thats twice youve dodged a perfectly good question

One of the current Champions five captains isn't he?

It's the future and surely McNamara has missed a trick here. Having a new man in charge every week could be invaluable, at least he won't be tarnished by leading the team the previous week.

[url=http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyleague/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rleague/10/10/19/RUGBYL_England_Nightlead.htmlSome comments by a couple of Graham's team mates on his captaincy.[/url

nz.sports.yahoo.com/nrl/news/art ... hall-kiwis? Kiwis by plenty?

nz.sports.yahoo.com/nrl/news/art ... hall-kiwis? Kiwis by plenty?

There was a Rugby League World Cup in 2008?! Nah! surely not!

I think you may find that your assumptions both prove incorrect. I may argue that winning or losing margins are as much a function of the strength of the opposition as they are the strength of the England/GB team(s)

Aotearoa, silver ferns and long white clouds are just the precursor to the more major embarrasment to come.

I've made no such assumptions.

It was you who made assumptions before the Four Nations tournament has even got underway when you opined the following:

[i"but this is McNamara - worst ever coach of an England/GB touring RL side...carnage"[/i

I merely responded to the ted nature of your assumptions with evidence of the embarrassing carnage when Tony Smith was coach of an England touring RL side which included 7 Leeds Rhinos players.

Given the evidence thus far and the results of the RLWC08, Tony Smith is currently the worst ever coach of an England or GB touring RL side... not McNamara... not yet, anyway.

According to Chris Irvine on Twitter, Hall is injured.

I think you'll find that the word 'assume' makes a guest appearance in your first sentence and returns in the passive voice in your second - you've even given it the honour of kicking off your second sentence for you. I make that two separate 'assumptions'

Keep taking the idiot pills they are really working for you

Ad hominem response and capitulation noted.

I merely responded to the ted nature of your assumptions with evidence of the embarrassing carnage when Tony Smith was coach of an England touring RL side which included 7 Leeds Rhinos players.

Given the evidence thus far and the results of the RLWC08, Tony Smith is currently the worst ever coach of an England or GB touring RL side... not McNamara... not yet, anyway.

Arguing with a Latin scholar who'd a thunk it. Opinion (mine re this squad and their lamentable coach) and assumptions (yours re how I will or wont respond to England's losing margin and the state of my memory re the 2008 world cup) are not the same thing... calling me a t now that really hurts, capitulation duly noted and promptly forgotten

...but Tony Smith took us to a Four Nations final and won a series against NZ.

Surely it would be the height of 'tery' to judge a touring side on one result. Considering we also only lost be 10 points to the world champions in the semi-finals, and 12 points in the group stages, it is a little disingenuous to focus on a 48 point loss ignoring all other performances.

And also, as you have introduced on one piece of evidence to justify your comment, and going by that, arent you just plain wrong that Tony Smith is the worst ever coach of an England or GB touring RL side?

Smith stuffed up on the player management side last time we toured - the Leeds-Sts nonsense was completely unnecessary and could have been easily prevented.

Having said that, Smith faced some enormous problems relating to the basic poor quality of the side he had available. He had to do extra training sessions to try to teach the team how to defend second man plays, as they were completely clueless about it. Compare to comments from Gus Gould about coaching Origin - there's no need to 'coach' them per se - just practicing moves and combinations and work out what the opposition may try. The reason is that all the players who reach that level can do the basics very well. It speaks volumes that the England coach is having to teach skills that are second nature to NRL players in the middle of a tournament.

Hall out, Goulding in, Tomkins fit. Details here: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 113092.stm

Hall out, Goulding in, Tomkins fit. Details here: news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 113092.stm

So when did England/ GB last go in to a game against Australia or New Zealand without a single Leeds player?

Dunno, but at least it won't be our fault if we lose.

Not entirely sure.

Possibly 25 Oct 1996 - 2nd Test V New Zealand - Palmerson North.

New Zealand 18 Great Britain 15

GB side:
1. Spruce (Bradford)
2. Hunte (St Helens)
3. Radlinski (Wigan)
4. Powell (Keighley)
5. Sullivan (St Helens)
6. Harris (Warrington)
7. Goulding (St Helens)
8. Broadbent (Sheffield)
9. Cunningham (St Helens)
10. O'Connor (Wigan)
11. Betts (Auckland)
12. Sculthorpe (Warrington)
13. Farrell (Wigan)
--
14. Mather (Wigan)
15. Molloy (Featherstone)
16. Hammond (St Helens)
17. Joynt (St Helens)

The height of 'rhinos tery' is judging a coach and his tour squad as being the worst ever with scant evidence - before the 4N competition has even kicked off - simply because there's hardly any former 'international loser' Leeds players in the squad and because the coach had connections with the Bulls.

England were shambolic in the RLWC08. Fortunate to scrape a win against PNG, blitzed by the Aussies, 24-8 ahead against the Kiwis only to capitulate 24-36 and soundly beaten in the Semi Finals where the Kiwis strolled it, were never in any danger, and were saving themselves for the Final.

Tony Smith is without a shadow of a doubt the worst touring coach of the worst touring squad (which included 7 Leeds players) ever to set foot in Australia.

Should the results and performances in the upcoming 4N be similarly as poor as in the RLWC08, I fully expect the next installment of 'rhinos tery' citing the lack of Leeds Rhinos players in the touring squad as the reason why - despite their embarrassingly out-of-their-depth p[ii[/isspoor performances in the recent past - and how it's all McNamara's fault.

Feel free to join that queue of tery... I'm sure you won't let me down.

Aaahh so the only way to avoid being labelled a 'f[iec[/ikwit' is to be wise after the event? Fair enough, this board is going to be a little boring though if we all simply sit here and sequentially write 'I cannot with any certainty predict the future'


even worse than sides who maybe lost to the world champions by more than 10 and 12 points? Even worse than sides who lost by more than 48 points to Australia? Can we nail down exactly what criteria you are judging Tony Smith as the worst coach of the worst touring squad ever to set foot in Australia? Because if it is simply your opinion, that is fine, but you are seemingly trying to indicate it has a place in fact.
Well it would seem a logical conclusion would it not? that if we speculate that the reason for our 08 capitulation was the large Leeds contingent and inept coach removing said Leeds contingent and inept coach should result in a better performance, if it doesnt we have disproved our hypothesis havent we?

Well considering your only criteria so far for being labelled a f[iec[/ikwit is speculating on the possible result of international RL i cant really deny it can I. I admit, in the past i have speculated on the possible result of RL matches. To my shame i have occasionally bet on the possible outcome of said matches. That must be beyond tery im sure, but William Hill for some reason wont allow me to be 'wise after the event' and avoid my f[iec[/ikwit label.

This England side drew with New Zealand Maori and Cumbria before this tournament began. You can only judge this England/Great Britain side by when we’ve won.

Rob Burrow was the last player to inspire England/Great Britain to any International series win. I just can’t see that coming from any of our half back at the moment playing for England. I don’t even think we’ll have a Sean Long within us to beat Australia next week.

Whilst this Australian side has had a lot of injuries. It’ll be a big opportunity to anyone’s whose in for the likes of Darren Lockyer and any other regulars because this may be they only chance to shine in international colours.

I hope I’m wrong - I really do.

There’s that and then there’s the fact that it was a Rhinos player that got man of the series against New Zealand in 2007. Heck it might have been a weaker squad but you can only play with what you got.

The Kiwis don’t tour well over here and we don’t tour well over in New Zealand.

That makes us equal - didn’t we beat the kiwi’s to get to the four nations final with Rhinos players in the side last year?

I think its more to do with what country it played in rather than the players.

If this lot don’t make it to the four nations final this year like last year, then it makes Rhinos players superior.

That’s not opinion - its fact.

[size=50PS - Oh and whilst we’re at it AP.

What happened to that town hall step gesture a few years ago you proposed to do with LTID? [/size