There are not many players who can throw 30 yard passes or completely run games before they have left school, there wasnt a flood of teams trying to sign him for his great attitude

Were they the same people who said early in 2013 that he had an issue with Singleton and that his face didn't fit with the coach after he only made 3 appearances over the years. Since Magic Weekend 2013 Singleton has since been picked in 88 of the 104 games played (one his own fault for getting suspended last week) and only Ablett played more games in our treble winning season, but as soon as Singleton wasn't selected for two games this season it was back to McDermott doesn't like him and his face doesn't fit.......

......still can't let it get in the way of a good agenda. It's almost an unwritten rule with some fans, if someone doesn't get picked for a game it obviously has to be because McDermott has fallen out with them because he's a ruthless dictator who is full of spite for certain players.

And there's not a lot of players who can be good but not great in so many attributes yet become one of the best players in the country.

McDermott didn't resign him, Hetherington did. It was Hetherington that Baldwinson went to discuss his future too, based on the talks made when he re-signed.

At Leeds, the CEO signs the players, the coach picks the team. Can you see the difference?

So if the CEO has signed someone the coach has no interest in then it's on GH is it not.

The coach has no interest in a former England Schoolboys captain, a former England Academy Captain, and last years Championship young player of the year, who plays in a position where we have been absolutely woeful all season and you don't think it isn't because the kids face doesn't fit with him? I didn't have you down as that naive. Even if you discount any "inside knowledge" there is no other logical answer. What has, for example Mullaley done to warrant consistent selection in front of Baldwinson?

Not knocking Baldwinson for winning young player of the year in the Championship but how many young players are there to choose from??? I go watch Batley on a Sunday and i watched Summer Bash but have never really seen any youngsters playing.

Maybe because he's older and more physically developed and has experience at the level.

There's a completely logical answer. It had been a dozen games, just like Singleton had to wait a dozen games in 2013 and only the solitary game in 2011 & 2012 and has since played in over 80% of matches since mid-2013.

It's simply a lack of patience on his part and some supporters part who can wait to see someone they rate play......IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT....but of course it always has to be more, it always has to be a drama, a rumour, a fallout, a finger of blame pointed.

Well said Printer. Couldnt agree more.

Amor out, Griffin and Moore in.

We have absolutely nothing to lose by giving Baldwinson a game or several, in fact just the opposite. Perfect situation to see how he would go against SL opposition. He's a prop, he doesn't have to run the game all he had to do is his job up the middle. What's the worst that could happen? Results are now completely irrelevant there is nothing to win.

Quite as i said previously on this very thread.

Its not as if he isn't playing against fully grown men every week - how many games had Sam Hallas played in the championship before thrown in. Nobody can seriously think he is more physically ready than Baldwinson?

Sinfield was one of the most talented youngsters this country has ever produced - simple just accept it from those who saw him when he was a teenager. UK RL hasn't produced a youngster of that quality since.

James Graham was the best i have seen. I saw Kevin before his academy days even but Graham was something else. The 1st time i saw him he was playing in the centre 2 yr below the age he was playing and he was best player on the park by a country mile. He was 14 playing at 16 level for Thatto Heath before he moved to Blackbrook where he basically won them the National Cup single handedly.

No bigger fan of Kevin than myself but Graham as a kid was the best i have seen.

Has Hallas asked for his release though? Just like the calls for Hardaker not to be picked again then why should Baldwinson if he's asked to leave?

Results are irrelevant now but when they were it's hardly a crazy call when you're without several experienced players not to drop another for yet another youngster. How many with limited/virtually no SL in a side at once if you're trying to fight your way out of poor form?

Like I said before, if he held on for a few more weeks he might well have gotten those appearances that Hallas got.

We must agree to differ. The point was Printer was trying to make was Sinfield got where he was because of his hard work and that there were players out there with more talent. Most who saw Sinfield as a junior will tell you they never saw a junior with more talent.

Who are these players who played earlier in the year with limited/no SL experience, i can only think of one Golding who played when Leeds had some chance of the top 8

You and others are saying Baldwinson is not getting a chance because we have not had injuries to props. Hallas has been picked as a hooker so how is Baldwinson going to get a game instead of Hallas?

Mulhern left because McDermott gave him a game against Huddersfield he missed a couple of tackles in a 20-20 draw iirc and was never given another chance. That is McDermott all over Walters misses heaps of tackles every time he is selected yet gets selected regularly - suppose he must have the right attitude, no quality but a good attitude.

Sorry must've missed those 200+ career appearances of Lilley, Handley and Walters. Before this season Keinhorst had only started at centre for us 14 times, Sutcliffe in the halves just over 20 starts, hell even Garbutt doesn't have a load of first team appearances under his belt in his career.



Hallas came on for Mullally at Magic weekend, went back off again for Cuthbertson. He might have done a little bit of dummy half work when on but we still had our 6,7,9 on for the full 80 so very likely Baldwinson could've had that spot.



Or our senior props stayed fit and we added Garbutt and because we were pushing hard for the league McDermott had the crazy idea of picking his strongest props available.......to understand that it would require common sense though.

Agree re Lilley - forgot about him, Handley played a good deal the season before, Walters played and scored in a grand final, Keinhorst had played centre in a CC final - how much experience do these players need before you suggest they are not rookies?

Hallas - are you seriously suggesting he was used a prop? even you don't believe that - no way Baldwinson could have had that role.

The job of the coach is to develop the squad - perhaps if he had more faith in the youth he wouldn't have needed to waste monies on the likes of Galloway and Mullally - maybe he would not now been bottom of the league? He also might have avoided flogging the likes of Cuthbertson to a point where he misses so many games - but of course that would have required some common sense wouldn't it?

A lot more than the 15-25 games they had before his season started that's for sure.



No I'm not suggesting that, that's why I didn't say it. We still kept Burrow on the field so it wasn't really a role that needed doing in attack, he was effectively used as a body in the middle for a while in defence which Baldwinson could've been.



I agree he could've placed more faith in youngsters at times but I also see why he hasn't at times wih regards to injuries or lack of them in a certain position and league table position......however that doesn't mean he hasn't picked someone purely out of spite because they went to NZ or missed a tackle......that's just agenda driven idiocy.

I'm not one for playing young players for its own sake, but traditionally a time of injuries and poor form is exactly when you'd expect to see them given a go. Despite BM's nonsensical mutterings about the top 4, then the top 8 and now some vague garbage about the team being able to do something "special" at the end of the year, in terms of winning things the season ended a long time ago. In those circumstances Baldwinson is exactly the kind of player who should have been given a chance weeks ago, if for no other reason than to give a kick up the backside to the other props.

As for Hardaker, it will be interesting to see what happens. The Raiders have apparently ruled themselves out. That probably leaves just the Knights and the Titans. I'm not that sure the Titans will be falling over themselves as they're playing far better this year having got rid of most of their party boys - including Falloon. I'm sure the Knights would be interested as they have a dreadful squad, although their best back is also playing full back (Dane Gagai). But if they're the only interested party I can't see them forking out anything for Hardaker.

Panthers have expressed an interest apparently Soward & Segyaro are out of favour & Moylan is seen as long term HB or 5/8th

More I think about it, more he can do one for me.

Can we send him to Hunslet on loan or summat, until he moves on.

Its a question of attitude as to whether Zak plays again for Leeds for me. Just because hes on the transfer list doesnt mean he shouldnt play.

Hopefully both parties get what they want quickly and while Zachery is out injured but if not he will still be a Leeds player and should be up for selection like the rest of the squad.

Last season we had 3 people announce they was retiring/leaving and all 3 played as the professionals they was. I know Zak isnt the professional they was but if the coaches decide his head is in the right place he should be selected.

Some people seem to suggesting because he is leaving he shouldnt be picked but there no guarantee this transfer will happen at this stage.