Thanks. I've calmed down now. Lol

I apologise to those who deserve it. I agree that to state that Sinfield is "over-rated" is bizarre at best.

I don't think McClennan is "sentimental"....more likely a victim of player politics as Serge (I think) suggested.

However, it is just a game...and if we do lose one of those critical crucial matches because of it ...then I won't lose any sleep.
I will continue to enjoy watching some very talented players in the meantime.....NOT least the very considerable skills of one Mr Buderus.

FFS – we have a coaching staff that has brought us four Championship wins in the last six years – three on the bounce. Their combined knowledge totally outstrips the combined knowledge of all who post on this board.

They seem to know what they are doing don’t you think?

Ok so you may have an opinion about who should take on the hooking duties but at the end of the day your opinion counts for sh[size=100i[/sizet all.

Does anyone really think that Bluey sits reading these boards on a night then, based on your opinion, picks his team?

We have two hookers, one is better than the other… get over it.

Simple answer: Get rid of both at end of year, combine wages and bring in a Smith, Farah, Luke or Roby...?

Quote ="rhinoms"Looks like he could be heading home. www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 5875237508'" And finally Danny (as in Buderus not Era of the Biff) responds: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 6344122.jp Test legend Danny Buderus has slammed speculation in Australia which suggests he is on the point of quitting Leeds Rhinos. An Aussie newspaper claims he is "homesick" and close to agreeing a deal for the rest of this year with NRL outfit Canberra Raiders, who are coached by former Leeds player David Furner. That follows reports earlier in the campaign that Buderus was set for a return to his old club Newcastle Knights. The former Australia Test captain, 32 is out of contract at the end of this season and has confirmed he plans to play on next year. Talks with Leeds over a new deal have begun and he said the latest Aussie headlines are "disappointing from a Rhinos fans' point of view and my point of view". Buderus insisted: "I am not homesick. I am just going through the process of contract negotiations. As far as commitment to the club goes, I want to see out my time here. I haven't been homesick in all the time I have been here. It has been difficult at times, which is understandable, but I am enjoying my time. I have made some real close friends here. I have got family and friends holidays booked up to the end of the year. I am not going anywhere. Buderus said there's "plenty to look forward to" with Leeds over the next few months. "Playing at Wembley in the Challenge Cup final is a big goal and dream," he said. "I am enjoying training, let alone games. I am feeling pretty fresh and I just want to help out the Rhinos, hopefully get to Wembley and have a good finish to the year." After being restricted by injury to just 17 appearances last season, Buderus has played in all but two of the Rhinos 20 games so far this year. __________ Quote ="nantwichexile"Perhaps I'm being sequipedalian '" Yes I thought you were but didn't like to say.

Quote ="rhinoms"Looks like he could be heading home. www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 5875237508'" And finally Danny (as in Buderus not Era of the Biff) responds: www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/l ... 6344122.jp Test legend Danny Buderus has slammed speculation in Australia which suggests he is on the point of quitting Leeds Rhinos. An Aussie newspaper claims he is "homesick" and close to agreeing a deal for the rest of this year with NRL outfit Canberra Raiders, who are coached by former Leeds player David Furner. That follows reports earlier in the campaign that Buderus was set for a return to his old club Newcastle Knights. The former Australia Test captain, 32 is out of contract at the end of this season and has confirmed he plans to play on next year. Talks with Leeds over a new deal have begun and he said the latest Aussie headlines are "disappointing from a Rhinos fans' point of view and my point of view". Buderus insisted: "I am not homesick. I am just going through the process of contract negotiations. As far as commitment to the club goes, I want to see out my time here. I haven't been homesick in all the time I have been here. It has been difficult at times, which is understandable, but I am enjoying my time. I have made some real close friends here. I have got family and friends holidays booked up to the end of the year. I am not going anywhere. Buderus said there's "plenty to look forward to" with Leeds over the next few months. "Playing at Wembley in the Challenge Cup final is a big goal and dream," he said. "I am enjoying training, let alone games. I am feeling pretty fresh and I just want to help out the Rhinos, hopefully get to Wembley and have a good finish to the year." After being restricted by injury to just 17 appearances last season, Buderus has played in all but two of the Rhinos 20 games so far this year. __________ Quote ="nantwichexile"Perhaps I'm being sequipedalian '" Yes I thought you were but didn't like to say.

Your heroic defence of the wand is noted. Those that post more regularly than you know he's little more than an antagonistic t0ssp0t who'se only goal is to irritate but he often embarrasses himself. If you don't like the bluntness with which I state that let me say that i couldn't give a tuppeny .

To respond to the rest of your post I'd firstly like to say that whilst the acclaim of those 4 Grand Finals might be tedious to you they are very dear and important to me and I shall never consider them, or the heroes in blue and amber who sweat and bled to attain them, to be tedious. I shall probably bore the likes of you for some time yet by harping back to them.

Which leads me to my next point. Past glories might be of little relevance to you but they are to me and hopefully one or two others within our supporter base. These players, including a certain Matthew Diskin, have provided our long suffering (or recent glory hunting) supporter base with it's greatest EVER period of sustained success. That to me counts for something, even if it doesn't for you. It counts, to me, as a Leeds fan, for a great deal more than what a certain D Buderus has achived in the green and Gold of Australia, the Blue of NSW or whatever colours the Newcastle Knights wear. Mr Buderus might have had a glittering career before he came to Leeds and you and others may pleasure yourself over that but it counts for little to me. His 30 odd Leeds games, some of which have been poor, some of which have been good, some of which have been very good and few, if any of which have been sensational, count for not much compared to Matt Diskins 200 plus games, harry Sunderland, player of the year and four grand final wins.

You say Buderus is the better player. Perhaps, perhaps not. I am not so sure FOR LEEDS he has won that battle hands down yet. Regardless, this isn't fantasy football. This is about achieveing success where the TEAM is, and has been, greater than the sum of it's parts.

You want to divorce sentimentality from the discussion? Fine, that's because you're an archetypical list maker fantasy football fan with little understanding of what someone like Barrie McDermott is talking about when he talks about bleeding and fighting for your mates. You clearly know little about the dynamic of a team sport. Walk into the Leeds locker room and tell the lads sat in there, lads who have sweat, bled, cried, drank and succeeded along side Matt that it's time to cut him loose simply because he's "not as good as Buderus", or doesn't have the glittery international career Buderus has had. I'd imagine Diskin has more freinds willing to sacrifice more on that field for him amogst the Leeds players than our most expensive, Australian player has.

All this talk presumes Diskin is not a good player. Well, all this talk is garbage. Diskin is a fine hooker. Read Jamie Peacock's comments about him if you don't believe me. Think about the success we've enjoyed with him as our rake if you don't believe me. Think about why the coach still has him in the 17 if you don't believe me.

Buderus was a luxury signing. He's on a massive salary and is takling up a quota spot and has not lived up to expectations. When was he the man of the match btw? He's 34 and yet, despite that, our starry eyed fans would still rather him take up that quota spot for another season and discard our most succesful ever hooker.

That is why I coined the phrase fekkwitts. Because it fits.

Some people don't seem to think team spirit matters very much. The Douggie Laughton era side would have earned a shed-load more than the current squad in today's money. It certainly had true 'stars' of the game in the likes of Iro, Innes, Schofield and Hanley. All of the above plus a few others would walk into our current side - on paper. Yet as a group they rarely displayed any courage at all.

In discussions outside of Leeds fans, very few of our current squad would probably be classed as all-time greats individually. For Leeds yes but elsewhere probably not. And yet this squad has shown a toughness both physical and mental that means it's a team in the truest sense - when it counts they have performed as a unit better than the sum of the parts. In a salary cap environment that's priceless.

If that means we hang on to some players a bit longer than pure playing ability would suggest then sobeit. And if its a choice between Diskin and Buderus in terms of retention, then I'd kick 'Bedsy' back to Newcastle in a heartbeat. Not because Diskin's a better player, but because he's more than adequate, and a key component of our amazing success to date.

We will have some tough decisions to make over the next few years as the side ages - Peacock, Senior, Leuluai etc can't go on forever. And there almost certainly will come a time when a player is pushed out who'd rather stay. I really don't see how Diskin could possibly fall into that category yet.

Don't get me wrong by the way - IMO the current squad has EARNED the right to loyalty from the club. If they'd all been around for years but won nothing then I'd agree that there should be little room for sentimentality. But they've won three titles in a row and are now potentially placed to win the league and cup double. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for a while yet.

Its not worth replying with any substance to you - there are some on here (that you're eager to sucker in as allies) who seem able to have a rational debate, I'll happily agree and disagree (in parts) with them instead.

Besides which - I think I recognise your posting style. It has a certain familiarity to it.

Can't argue with that.

Fantastic.

Brisbane & G1 have explained why I would keep hold of Diskin over Buderus (If that situation ever happened) and also because Diskin would have 4-5 years to assist McShane, Buderus may only stay 1 more year.

Also if anyone wants to question how important team spirit is in this squad you don't have to look any further than Sinfield's GF speech last year.

They both did very good posts. Both post however paid no attention whatsoever to the here and now, which is where I dissagree with them. They were based purely on past seasons only, even more or less pointed out that it would be accepted to accept a lesser player just for reward purposes.

Surely you don't seriously believe that Diskin could do another 4-5 years? surely it was just a typing error?

He's only 28

How many times have we been told that Senior is past it, that peacock is past it, that Buderus after breaking his leg at 32 was past it.

Individuals are completely different though, so too are positions. We see that with quite a few players.

There's just been 17 or so pages debating Buderus new contract or Diskin, and yes there's been some childish poop, but some reasoned debate also. I got the impression from most that it was agreed despite which way you preferred, that both were reaching the ends of their careers whoever we keep.

No way could Diskin do super league for more than another 2 years, absolutely no way. He might manage a year more than Buderus, but it would be suicide to have him for longer than that.

In your opinion of course, my crystal ball is at the menders so mine wasn't fact

This is an aside to the Buderus/Diskin debate, and I agree that the best teams are more than the sum of their parts, and Leeds have achieved this. But I'm not sure about the comparison of "individual greats" in the Laughton era and now, and think you may be underrating the individuals in our squad.

So while Schofield, Hanley and Iro qualify from the earlier era, Senior and Peacock certainly, Webb and Lauititi probably, and Sinfield and Maguire possibly (they're only "possibles" not "probables". due to widespread anti-Leeds feeling) would all go into the pantheon for a genuinely neutral RL fan. Add to those Gareth Ellis, and the possibility of Hall, Smith and Eastwood going on to achieve far more in the game and you realize that the *parts* are pretty good, which is the primary reason that the sum of the parts has been good too.

I'd have said Diskin has another 2 years without doubt.

After 30 it becomes a bit more debateable, certainly if the sole hooking option, but its at least conceiveable he could go on for 2 years longer than that.

This debates really hit rock bottom now, and scraping the barrell.

I hope to god that fans who pay good money to watch this team home and away do not see the club run the way some posters wish.

It would be like living in the twilight zone.

Are you echoing Gareth's earlier post or is your bottom lip out for some other reason?

Same here, You would have ousted the entire squad at certain points during our treble championship winning run.

G1's post was a worthy contribution and highlights perfectly the team aspect rather than the individual aspect of the sport.

Now I'm just left to wonder what Ian Kirke needs to do to gain acceptance.

You can see some discussion of the comparative merits a couple of pages or so back.

As an outsider, but an RL fan.

Buderus or Diskin is to me a no brainer. Diskin is a player who gives his all for Leeds every time he plays and at 28 yeras of age still has two,three or four top class years ahead of him.
Buderus has been a very good player, but at his age it's not worth the risk of him picking up another injury.

The other thing I'd like to say id that you will need to find another hooker. McShane for me is a very average player. I watched him closely in the U20 game v Wigan and he was completely outplayed by a 17 year old Logan Tomkins, but I guess that's another debate.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Mickey McIlorum heading back to Leeds at some stage and maybe sooner rather than later. he is very much like Diskin in the way he plays the game.

That thought passed my mind earlier on - a young Leeds lad, but with games under his belt and out of contract this year.