I don’t think Oledski was the problem last night. Cats took us down the edges very effectively where Handley/Awfulpherts couldn’t handle defensive structure and Newman wasn’t much better on the other side. Hooley seemed out of position, I like the see the FB somewhere in the frame at least when you’re broken in the centres or wing.

Actually thought young Sinfield had a better defensive and all-round game as well.

We got mullered but I think RS had it about right in the presser: too many player changes and then under pressure the team cohesion broke and we had individuals trying to solve too much.

We'll disagree then, aside from the much publicised disruption (why are we having incidents like Nene and Austin like to the level weve not seen before, RS?) there are fundamental expectations on professional players at this level that were dire, park the excuses we get them, this season has been awful punctuated by an absolute sht show this last couple of week that goes far beyond mitigation.

Austin is and always has been a firebrand and that’s part of the reason he’s over here and not NRL. His temperament is poor. The club is right not to be dictated to by individual players.

Nene I have no clue what’s happened there but I suspect he has been offered an NRL deal off the back of his form and is looking at 2x salary or something with a new baby over there too - also another one with a chequered past and poor decision making.

I’d rather the club was more disciplinarian not less. Newman’s antics are embarrassing at times.

Bentley has also embarrassed the club with his fighting around the England set up last year.

This is where a McDermott or a Wane just wouldn’t put up with some of the stuff happening with players.

My reading of this week's Yorkshire Post interview with GH was that basically 2023 was written off as a bad job. I'm not really surprised that this attitude has filtered down to the players and probably explains, along with the limited availability of playing staff, why the last two results have been so poor. The way they treated players on the last year of their contract wasn't the best way to motivate players to give their all for Leeds, so we have players leaving during the season with no replacement available, and this will probably make it harder to bring players in new players in the near future. Refusing to discuss new contracts until the end of the season isn't exactly matching up to the old "loyalty" angle they used to sell to the players. Along with the corrections to suggest things last year went better than they actually did, the old standards like emphasising the academy when asked about signings, and not so subtle comments putting the responsibility on the coach, these leave me with no more faith in GH's optimism than I've had for a long time. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/r ... re-4336911

My reading of this week's Yorkshire Post interview with GH was that basically 2023 was written off as a bad job. I'm not really surprised that this attitude has filtered down to the players and probably explains, along with the limited availability of playing staff, why the last two results have been so poor. The way they treated players on the last year of their contract wasn't the best way to motivate players to give their all for Leeds, so we have players leaving during the season with no replacement available, and this will probably make it harder to bring players in new players in the near future. Refusing to discuss new contracts until the end of the season isn't exactly matching up to the old "loyalty" angle they used to sell to the players. Along with the corrections to suggest things last year went better than they actually did, the old standards like emphasising the academy when asked about signings, and not so subtle comments putting the responsibility on the coach, these leave me with no more faith in GH's optimism than I've had for a long time. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/r ... re-4336911

No excuses

Smiths had an absolute shocker this season, not the only issue with the club at present, far from it, but most definitely one of them. Dating back to pre-season, he's got just about everything wrong.

The bull e that a section of the fanbase keep lapping up is astounding:

We're a young team - are we? and even if we are, Most of our younger players have actually regressed from where they were a year ago

We've been in a lot of close games - Is that meant to be a positive? If we were a remotely decent team, we'd of won a lot of them close games by double digits, not losing them. Hull KR at home, they had all the excuses we currently use to lose that game, but they came, showed a bit of desire and intelligence, and got the win, in the same situation, we down tools and play like brain dead idiots with zero pride in themselves.

Playing structure - We havnt got one, its not that its bad, its worse than that, we just havnt got one. Thats why when squad players step in, we fall off a ciff, the throw the ball around and hope for a bit of magic, dosnt work, because they arnt capable of it, everyone then loses composure and gets frustrated and we fall apart. Well coached teams have a structure that squad players can fit into, they're not as good as the starters, but can still be a cog in the system.

The seasons been an absolute show from everyone within the club, Smith included.

I think RS has been coaching for nearly 20 years including behind the scenes roles at NRL clubs. The fact that he is attempting to replace the entire spine at Leeds which he inherited tells you where he’s not happy with the squad.

I agree that structure has been missing this season all too often but either Austin and Sezer have failed to provide it or we’ve been running without recognised halves. Individual errors from players have also denied us much structure because we’ve been constantly on the back foot/losing the energy battle.

Our D has actually been pretty good all year other than the last 2 games, which coincides with just too many players gone or out of position.

We are all frustrated but the side will be totally different next year and we’re going to have to wait to see what RS pulls out with a new spine and other key players in place.

Confidence is shot. Players are making the effort but it's as individuals. We saw exactly the same under Furner, and towards the end of his time at Leeds, Agar too.

It's a sorry state of affairs at the club. I'd like to see GH taking more of a responsible attitude than this. When there's implicit blame being passed around from the top-down it doesn't bode well for the health of the organisation, and I agree there's a likely a connection between this message and on-field performances.

As fans, we like there to be a simple solution - a new CEO, a new coach, a new signing etc, but Leeds are in such a mess that I don't think any of these things are going to be enough on their own. The drive to be better has to be sustained from within or the club will be condemned to mediocrity for a long time to come.

There is a simple solution, it’s just not a quick one. Both GH and RS need to move on, GH to purely the non rugby side, and RS out of the club altogether.

I don’t see us back seriously challenging for another 2-3 years yet.

2-3 years ago people were saying exactly the same, so maybe make that another 4-6.

Im not talking about next year though Jim, im talking about this season, from pre-season to now, Smith's had a shocker, even regular fans with a basic knowledge base could see pre-season was a shambles as it was happening, they were right

And that tradjectory has been maintained throughout the season, he's largely to blame for the lack of cohesion with his 'why slot in one player when i can move 3' approach to someone being unavailable.

A structure should be implemented regardless of personel, you will get different levels of fit depending on players abilitys, but a structure should still be visable, these arnt u8's we're talking about, for all the talk of a young side, o'conner aside, we've had the oldest spine in the comp, but our only visable pattern of attacking play was still throw the ball about and hope for the best, a coach should be able to get more from experienced halfs/fullback, wether they are his ideal spine or not. Now they arnt available we'r seeing the cost of the lack of structure, because players with less talent/expierience are now in that position of having to conjure something out of nothing, and they cant do it.

Now im not suggesting he cant turn it around, or that he wasnt a breath of fresh air last year, but talking about his performance this season in isolation, he's had a shocker, no two ways about it

If Betty did the team talk next week we would probably get a better response from the players. Rohan is a joker.

Let's say that happens starting tomorrow. 12-18 months in, fans will be saying exactly the same thing with the new CEO and coach. What do we do then, stick or twist?

Wouldn’t that depend on how we were doing and what plan we had communicated?

Definitely wouldn't sack Betty the tea lady as a good cup of tea is probably the only potential pleasure at Headingley currently. I have always tried to he balanced about it and you cannot change every role at once in an organisation however clearly as a club we have issues at all levels and many where there before RS was appointed.
The last 2 games are just the culmination of issues that have either been there for a number of years at board and organisation level or that have steadily got worse at coaching and playing level all year.
I thought RS did well last year but this year has been a creeping disaster and I fear he is probably not the right man now however it's very hard to change at this stage although personally I would try and get Sean Wane.
The key worries regarding RS this year for me are as follows.

Coaching team according to Gary the coach picks them Walker and Grix not for me!
No proper pre-season and team seemed underprepared.
Experimenting with players out of position.
Passive Defense
Lack of clear attacking structure.
Poor communication and no leaders on the pitch possibly recruitment issue but Smith is passive as well.
Dealing with poor discipline. (Newman)
Appears to have lost the dressing room.

Now it's not all RS fault as I think Gary has thrown him under the bus a bit but if he picks the coaches and is in charge of recruitment and who stays and go's then somebody needs to stand up and take some responsibility

Salary cap not available on the night is huge, and includes arguably our first choice spine at the start of the season. Different reasons why some of these players aren't available but arguably only Leeming could have been replaced in-season.

Tetevano - marquee signing
Sezer - marquee or close to marquee money
Walters - our 'best young player' according to Wilkin
Myler - injured
Bentley - injured
Sangare - injured
Austin - left during season and not replaced
Leeming - left during season and not replaced
Macdonald - left during season and not replaced

How many games would Leeds have won in 2015 without Hardaker, McGuire, Sinfield and Aiton/Burrow all out, plus Peacock (as our highest paid forward, equivalent to Tetevano).

Exactly Seth….it’s like Groudhog day

Thing is if the club is rotten top to bottom a) then how do you explain the good results this year e.g. the Saints and Wigan games earlier season? Was everyone amazing then because we were winning? b) if there is a problem then the only common denominator is Hetherington I’m afraid.

Lost the dressing room? I don’t think so although these hammerings drive people apart obviously.

I’m not sure anyone on this forum really has an inside angle on the camp to know what we’re talking about.

Also as we’re discussing youth matts, who are you thinking we could see break through over the next year or two? I’ve given up predicting I usually can’t pick them.

There were 11 first choice players and a couple of experienced squad members e.g. Donaldson out there - the spine had 40% of its first choice line up. The performances the last two weeks suggest this is a cultural issue.

The wins against Wigan and Saints were clearly one offs - Saints on the back of the WCC and Wigan having a off day - it happens.

The players haven't seemed interested the past two weeks - when they had a chance of making the play offs - why is that?

No one on here is close to squad to know what is going on - the performance have been so poor they can't but lead to discussion and speculation.

If Leeds are in for Sam Powell ten something is very seriously wrong with player evaluation and the needs of the squad. What the club needs is more pace not less.

"lot of kids out there" and as the saying goes "You'll never win ow't with kids"

Our 2004 Grand Final winning squad v Bradford Bulls contained no fewer than 10 home grown players that were all aged between 21 and 24 and i'm sure that none of these players will have been on anywhere near the salaries that they eventually received a couple of seasons down the line.
Richie Mathers (21)
Mark Calderwood (23)
Chev Walker (22)
Kevin Sinfield (23)
Danny McGuire (22)
Danny Ward (24)
Matt Diskin (23)
Ryan Bailey (21)
Rob Burrow (21)
JJB (23)

Our key 1,6,7 and 9 spine positions were all filled by these home grown young kids.

The squad was complemented by some very astute signings from other SL clubs and from overseas.
Keith Senior, Marcus Bai, Chris McKenna, Ali Lauitiiti, Dave Furner, Willie Poching & Barry McDermott

This is what the club urgently need to get back to doing very well if we want to finally bring an end to this current 8 year transitional period, which has been an absolute shambles.

Agree that development of young players is the answer. Just look at Saints. But I'm not sure if SL clubs can attract the kind of talent from the NRL that we managed in 2004. Even then we only managed to sign Lauitiiti because he was unsettled. Right now the competition to sign the best English talent is much harder than before. We can't keep attracting the likes of Ellis and Senior from the traditional 'lower clubs'; in fact, that's what Leeds have become since 2017.

Stick Keith Senior, Marcus Bai, Chris McKenna, Ali Lauitiiti, Dave Furner, Willie Poching & Barry McDermott into Saturday's side and I think it would hav ebeen a very different outcome.

I agree on Powell although I can see Leeds being keen to bring “experience” in.

You can’t say two big wins with great performances are one offs, and then two horrible defeats when half a team is missing is the standard, that’s just not logical. The teams taking the field at the different times were very different, the coach is the same… you will all draw your own conclusions.