For the most part, I quite like the way Wigan approach the game. There is too much stuff that goes on after collision that I'm not keen on. But they have a ruthlessly simple and effective gameplan: it starts with the raw aggression of the forwards. Player for player they're not the most gifted pack (I'd take Flower and McIlorum off their hands and I'm a big fan of O'Loughlin, but the rest are pretty ordinary as individuals, IMO) but as a unit they hit everything that moves. That lays a platform for 2 decent halves who know the plan and play more as link players than glory seekers. They then have the job of getting some very dangerous outside backs on the outside shoulder of a defender and when they get a break they back up in numbers.

Wane is not the most likeable character, but he has a system and he gets his squad to buy into it. Surely that's what good coaching is?

The key with Wane I think is that it's 'his' club and one he was at well in advance of becoming head coach. Had he for example come to Leeds at the start of 2011 I'm not sure his style would've worked here, especially given the age and success our players were at in their careers.

Also the same with calls for him to get the England job, potentially he could do ok, but not having the players week in week out to drive in that agressive, let's do them mentality that he does at Wigan might mean he's not as effective in the area he specialises in when he only has several weeks with his team.

Agree with that. I love Wigan's aggression in defence. I do not like the cheap shots after the ball has been passed or kicked though, and the twisting of legs/ankles/joints in the tackle along with unnecessary cannonball tackles is what makes me dislike them at the moment.

I think it's just a matter of time before a player is seriously injured over here, like Alex McKinnon or worse. That's not just aimed at Wigan either, it goes for the whole league.

I often am amazed that their fairly predictable tactics are such a surprise. I also firmly believe that in any game of league you win have to match any aggression your opponents throw at you. Physical intimidation is a lost art. We have players like JP and a couple of others who are not afraid of anyone. We also have a too many players who, may not be "worried" but certainly don't know how to handle rough house tactics. Wigan's " hard men" are complete pussies compared to the players I watched many years ago. Everyone knew how to handle high shots, cheap hits on the ground, knees, late hits etc. etc. even if they were not thugs themselves they knew how to deal with it. Wigan throw everyone off with fairly mild rough stuff and a bit of sledging from that pr1ck McIllorum. Roy Dickinson would have just found it all mildly amusing, John Holmes would be pleasantly surprised that his jaw wasn't broken with a late hit (like I saw happen in one game against the Goons) and Kevin Dick would have just knocked out Matty Smith. Christ knows what Wardy would have done to his opposite number.
Nut up or shut up. Sick of us rolling over and whingeing about the Goons.

I don't think they surprise many people. I just think that when they're executed properly, they're difficult tactics to overcome.

You have to win the collisions and win the ruck. Knowing that is all very well. Doing it when they start at the pace and intensity they did against Wire is something else.

Agree on the rest. Even the hard men of my early days watching Leeds (Skerrett, Sorensen et al) or Barry Mac and Terry O'Connor would have eaten today's Wigan pack for breakfast. Widnes' pack of the early 90s, no contest. Even our 1999 pack (meanest of the SL era?). As you say though, it's a lost art in this hemisphere. Wigan have rediscovered it and rule the roost with it.

What an intelligent contribution, in a week of discussion of who is the greatest yorkshire man, I would like to nominate you.

Lol, that's an absolute load of rubbish.

Please call again , you're fabulous .

Whilst I agree with you in theory, we have tried the nice guy approach at international level and failed time and time again. Wouldn't it be nice to find a coach who could get under the Aussies skin in the same manner that he winds up opposition club fans.

Not quite sure how you think winding up Australian fans would make England successful on the field, but hey.

Unfortunately, I think Australia have the angles covered. If we make it about free-flowing, attacking rugby they win that battle. If we keep it tight and rely on sparks from the halves, they win. If we biff it up the middle and try to make it about the forwards, its probably closer but they win. If we try and rough them up and play nasty, then they win. The only NRL players I've seen this year have been in the Roosters/Wigan game and 2 of the Origin matches. In both cases the forwards on show would not (and in one case were not) be overly troubled by the Wigan approach.

When the players are simply better players, in better shape and used to a higher intensity, team selections and tactics become a bit irrelevant. England just have to play to their own strengths and hope for an upset.

Exactly. There's absolutely no point crying about Wigan's tactics, particularly given the blandness and lack of intensity perceived to be rife in our game. Two teams facing off with their attitude would always be a good watch. Neither does it need to be that way; there are other strategies that would doubtless work against them too.

I think Shaun Wane is different to other Super League coaches in that he is a product of Wigan and he coached the under 18s and was then assistant to Madge. He is Wigan through and through and it shows. He couldn't replicate that for England or any other team for that matter.

He is very close to the young players especially who he regards as family. In some cases they almost were! Lee Mossop lived with the Wane's when he came down from Cumbria and Chris Tuson went out with one of Wane's daughters for example. He genuinely loves them. But it is his way or the highway and so the likes of Gareth Hock didn't stay round too long under Wane (I personally think that is a shame as Hock will now never fulfil his potential).

I don't think the programme did Wane any favours. The incessant profanity was surely unnecessary. I can understand why fans of other clubs hate him. Also his constant moaning about referees wears thin.

However I have grown to love the guy. I think that his skills in man managing are quite intuitive. The players would die for him and seem to be totally loyal. Interesting to see Sam Tomkins, Harrison Hansen and Lee Mossop at the game on Friday. I wonder if they think the grass is still greener elsewhere?

Was this programme people are referring to on Sky, presumably? If so, as a non-Sky customer is there anyway to see it otherwise?

Pretty fair summation IMO.
I definitely think the down under programme didn't show Wane in a great light. Not particularly for the swearing, swearing is pretty rife amongst RL players and I don't think it's much to get worked up about. It was really that the programme just seemed to show his only tactics as being "effing hit em hard".
I know some people have jumped on that to portray him as a bit thick and "basic" but there's obviously more to him than that, it's just that's how the programme portrayed him.
I'd also say it was a bit of a rubbish programme. It didn't show enough of game related behind the scenes. They're the bits that really interest me, not whether Sam Tomkins got a speeding fine. I actually think RL could steal a march on other sports if they did an in-depth, season long, behind the scenes series. Either following one club or several. Basically a Rugby League Raw but for SL.

I think you're right in that Wane works so well at Wigan because of his long association with, and obvious love for, Wigan. It's why I'm not in favour of him becoming England coach, I don't think his biggest asset, the passion which he instills in his players, would transfer to that job.

There's a show on HBO made with NFL Films called "Hard Knocks", which follows an NFL team through its pre-season training camp with unparalleled access to the locker rooms, team meetings etc.

Would be interesting to see a rugby league version of that, rather than maybe a full season.

I completely agree. I suspect that the stuff that would interest the likes of us was probably edited out.

I also think that the England job is not for him either. Quite honestly if Tony Smith couldn't manage it then I doubt very much if there is anyone out there who could. Australia could field at least three teams who could beat us. Whoever does it is on a hiding to nothing. And I hope for his sake Shaun turns it down when McNamara gets the chop in November. Maybe there are some Leeds fans who hope Brian Mc gets offered a chance!!!

The thing with Tony Smith's reign and the ill fated 2008 WC was the apparent Leeds/Saints split in the camp. You'd have to imagine Wane would pick quite a Wigan heavy squad and team line-up and would they be a potential of a Wigan/rest of squad split like in 2008?

Yes. That's another reason why it wouldn't work. I'm not sure players from other clubs would necessarily buy in to SWs style.

The 2008 World Cup was a fiasco from start to finish. But Smith is the best coach in Super League and has been for some time. His efforts at Wire this season after losing Briers Hodgson and Morley have been excellent. And respect also for the way he carried himself after the game. As I say though the England job is a poison chalice for whoever is unfortunate enough to get it.

Tony Smith also had about the weakest outside backs GB has ever had, and had the added disadvantage of the Australians playing second man RL which would at the time have been called obstruction in SL but not in the NRL. He actually had to spend time coaching an international team on how to read basic second man plays.

The idea that England could somehow rough up the Aussies (and particularly the Kiwis) is laughable. As is the idea that it would put them off their game.

I don't think this would be a great experience for fans of the team selected to follow, especially if it is during a bad year that they have. I know in the late 90s, there was 'Premier Passions' (I think it was) following the mighty Mackems when Peter Reid was in charge of them in the Premier League. Sunderland did terribly that year and among Newcastle fans / non-Sunderland fans in the North East stuff that was aired in that series is still used to wind the red and whites up at times.

For instance, if they followed Leeds on a season where they came say 6th or 7th and were knocked out of the cup early doors, you'd basically be supplying free ammunition to fans of pretty much everyone else. Conversely however, who would actually watch it if it followed a geographically smaller team like Cas or Wakey...?

I'd love to see Tony Smith give the England job another go. He was the best coach we've had in a long time coaching arguably the weakest England team we've ever had (Lee Smith, Calderwood, Sykes, Purdham, Gleeson (at stand off) *shudder*. We're still not where we'd like to be in terms of personnel but we're massively better off compared to 6 years ago.

I don't think it's McNamara's style anyway. I have actually been quietly impressed with what he's done the last couple of years, and if he can use what we've got to the maximum and get the team defending well then we have a chance (small, but it's there) against Australia and more than a chance against NZ.

Leeds is not a town it's a major city

Watch this space.