Achurch admitted a few weeks ago that he was lacking in fitness and I think he still is, granted he hasn't been great yet but I'll reserve my judgement until he has played a few more games. I think part of the problem is that he is trying too hard to impress.

It's interesting that yourself and a few more are saying this, When he was interveiwed pre season in portugal he stated he felt the fittest he had been in his career. I do agree with most that he does'nt look fit but that will come with game time, I am looking forward to seeing him when the weather gets warmer. Anyone slating vickery after 1 full game needs to give their head a big shake. How good was a certain Mr Senior after a few games???

"Rant" ? Hardly. I am happy to see the lads given a chance and settle in.......my only point was that I would hope ALL new potential future regulars are given an EQUAL opportunity to stake a claim to regular first team duties, regardless of their accent or origins.

If Achurch is not fully fit, but other lads 'knocking on the door' (Singleton?) are, then why is the former and not the latter getting repeated first team opportunities?

I tend to agree with this.

I'd also say that if the proposed format of the WCC (top 3 vs top 3) does go ahead, we might get a better idea of how we compare. Would be interesting.

It should also be noted that our coach is asking Achurch to play prop. I thought he was a wide running second rower.

I thought he was a second rower with a offload game as well.

Very true and using Jjb there aswell points to no future for Griffin ,Moore and Singleton still not trusted and the possible over reliance on JP and Kylie!!

Singleton is only 20, very young for a prop.I see no harm at all in leaving him at Hunslet for the whole season. its a very competetive league where he can play against some tough, seasoned forwards without the spotlight being on him.By all accounts he had a solid game today at Fev.

We have more than enough props on good wages chomping at the bit for game time at the minute.

Moon & Delaney would also be on the Non Fed Trained list too.

..but neither Achurch or Vickery would have needed visas regardless of SL rules. In the case of Vickery at least, if he didn't have a Beritish passport he almost certainly wouldn't have got a visa. Achurch would probably have struggled too.

I'd also take issue with the suggestion that certain forwards wouldn't get into the Storm side. One thing they have shown for years under Bellamy is that they play to a structure so well understood that any number of unknown forwards have shone for them. This is highlighted by the fact that most that have left have been nothing like as good for other clubs.

Also, when discussing the quality of Leeds' recent recruits (which I have criticised myself in the past), have a look round SL. Its hardly brimming with first rate overseas players.

Not only are Jones-Buchanan and Achurch being used as part-time props but it's also telling when Hemmings makes an observation like 'Clarksons been quiet tonight' or words to that effect.

Not sure what Hemmings was expecting to see from him sat on the bench for the opening seventy.

Too early to write Achurch off just yet but Vickery already looks like this year's Michael Coady - although both look better than Omari Caro.

Let's not forget though that this is the greatest Leeds squad the CEO has ever assembled according to the ........ eh CEO.

Maybe on the wing, but as Keinhorst is the better pick as he looks to give the ball more out wide and his defence is aggressive, more suited to a .....I would think Leeds have more to gain from getting keinhorst game time at with his 3yr deal versus Vickery on the wing on a 1yr deal. I would like to see Chisolm given a shot on the wing also

Is it that far behind the ultimately trophy-less 2010 greatest ever Leeds squad according to.........eh you?

IMO Achurch looks to have potential but will be better suited to the back row. I also like the look of Vickery. I understand both have impressed the coaches with their attitude and training which is also a big factor in the selection process.

Do you have the quote ?

I don't but IIRC it went something like 'greatest Leeds squad on paper since 2004.'

I'll stand by that and say now the Leeds 2013 squad isn't as good on paper as either of those.

Not even convinced it's as good as last years, if you recall, that's the one the CEO was legitimately asking 'had it run it's course' in June 2012.

I think we probably all know my view by now - having regularly performed this pantomime routine - not so sure whether you've got an opinion on the relative squad strengths or at least one you're prepared to share?

Agree regarding attitude etc being a big factor. Achurch hasn't set the world on fire but as stated it a big SR. with a offload game playing prop. He doesn't look at the races at the moment but can see the potential.
From what I have seen of vickery he seems ok but yet to be convinced of this signing.

Shouldn't possessing a good attitude and a willingness to train hard be an absolute given for someone like Vickery with either little or no 1st grade experience rocking up to the home of the Champions looking for an opportunity ?

Good attitude and hard work are fine but it still has to be supplemented by talent to make an impact. No size, no pace, no power so yet to understand what Vickery can offer beyond a good training ethic.

No size, no pace, no power?

You didn't see the Boxing Day game, did you tvoc? In fact, exactly how much have you seen of Vickery in the flesh? Somewhere not far off "none at all" I'll wager?

I wouldn't be writing him off just yet, the physical attributes are there and at least unlike Chisholm, he can catch.

You're correct, I have no interest in out of season meaningless friendlies as a reference point.

I've seen every minute that Vickery has played so far at 1st grade level and I'm waiting to see what he has to offer. As a modern day winger he's neither big, elusive or fast. His fielding of the early Melbourne kick was hesitant and laboured turning a possible kick return into a drop-out.

I can't (and don't) comment on players before I've seen them play first grade so I have no opinion to offer re-Chisholm at this stage.

I shared my view in 2010. It's foolhardy, IMO, to label a squad as the best, the greatest or the worst before a ball is kicked or even until the meaningful games are played. It's premature and I haven't been premature since I was 16.

I'll happily critique players abilities and performances as the season goes on and I'll happily bestow greatness upon players when it's been earned on the pitch rather than on paper.

Vickery didn't let anybody down against the Storm, which is not a bad effort in his second full game. Had he been particularly poor in defence, Cronk and Smith would have targeted him all night and we'd all be talking about what a disaster he is.

I don't know why anyone would expect much more from a reserve player. Which is what he'll be if and when everybody's fit.

Quote ="G1"I shared my view in 2010. It's foolhardy, IMO, to label a squad as the best, the greatest or the worst before a ball is kicked or even until the meaningful games are played. It's premature and I haven't been premature since I was 16.'" Was it foolhardy to rate the chances of all fourteen SL clubs before a ball was kicked in 2012 ? Judging by the final table perhaps that should be a yes in your case. Is that really =52 out of 54 ...... come on ...... seriously ? viewtopic.php? ... &start=113 Such a pity you've missed entering this year's comp. Something will always be missing, like winning a Championship from 5th without beating one of your major rivals at any point during the season - should such an unlikely thing ever happen. That doubt of not knowing whether you were truely worthy of the title. The question remains is winning a competition without the boards self-proclaimed Alpha-male really worth winning? Quote ="G1"I'll happily critique players abilities and performances as the season goes on and I'll happily bestow greatness upon players when it's been earned on the pitch rather than on paper.'" Safe and you do it with such charm I imagine nobody could ever take the slightest offense.

Quote ="G1"I shared my view in 2010. It's foolhardy, IMO, to label a squad as the best, the greatest or the worst before a ball is kicked or even until the meaningful games are played. It's premature and I haven't been premature since I was 16.'" Was it foolhardy to rate the chances of all fourteen SL clubs before a ball was kicked in 2012 ? Judging by the final table perhaps that should be a yes in your case. Is that really =52 out of 54 ...... come on ...... seriously ? viewtopic.php? ... &start=113 Such a pity you've missed entering this year's comp. Something will always be missing, like winning a Championship from 5th without beating one of your major rivals at any point during the season - should such an unlikely thing ever happen. That doubt of not knowing whether you were truely worthy of the title. The question remains is winning a competition without the boards self-proclaimed Alpha-male really worth winning? Quote ="G1"I'll happily critique players abilities and performances as the season goes on and I'll happily bestow greatness upon players when it's been earned on the pitch rather than on paper.'" Safe and you do it with such charm I imagine nobody could ever take the slightest offense.

I suppose you would have to say the difference between your "2010 greatest" but trophy-less squad and the subsequent less-great-in-your-opinion, but historic trophy winning ones, is a decent coach!

He also didnt really get much ball in hand, the only real chance he had was the Mcguire pass that went out, I havent seen a replay to determine whether it was a poor pass or he over ran it.

I thought he over ran it slightly - had McGuire shot it straight to Vickery's run it would have been like the ghost of Brent Webb had never left the building.