I'm a bit mixed about the game really. I never expected Leeds would win, and in the opening quarter we looked decent. However we were taken apart in the next part of the game and looked like men against boys. Defending as poorly as we did in 2018 and 2016. The performance seemed to only confirm what we have been saying on here over the winter. Not enough strength in the middle

On the upside though I think we played the team who will be right at the top of the table all things being equal. Also, more established Leeds teams have gone to Warrington and been more soundly beaten. I've the season I expect we'll get better. I think only the most optimistic fan would think we would be right at the top of the league. We'll see how they get on over the next month or so

Saints can go wide off the charges of Walmsley and Thompson creating quick rucks for Roby to scoot or to spread the play. We've got Cuthbo, Singo, Donaldson and Ferres. Our best forward last year Hall and this year it will be Hurrell.

Other than Ward none of our forwards will break a tackle all season.

I went to Hunslet today to watch a very young Leeds team lose out 34-28. Trout had a good strong game, Muizz and Holroyd we're both strong and run far harder than any of our forwards at Warrington.

The stats disagree with you.

According to the Leeds web site Singleton was on for just 3 minutes longer than Donaldson (35/33) and in those extra 3 minutes Singleton made 2 more carries and 19 more metres than Donaldson. Both made 28 tackles and both made one tackle bust each and no missed tackles. So Singleton averaged 6.5m per carry and Donaldson 5m per carry. Both made either a tackle or a carry every minute they were on except for one minute each (perhaps when they ran on) so both were equally busy with Single marginally more effective.

As I said Singleton on paper was marginally better than Donaldson something that you chose to overlook or perhaps failed to observe..

In the game the other night Saints regularly went wide even in their own red zone and not always on the back of forward drives a point noted by the TV pundits. Their tactic for this match was to clear the fast line speed of the big Wigan pack....and it worked.

So they don’t disagree with me then. For someone who constantly goes on about stats, you really need to understand them better, you seem to struggle with them, and only pick out certain ones.

So again I will say, Singleton had more minutes, which of course you have already stated, and somehow point to this fact of 2 more carries, yet believe Donaldson wouldn’t have increased his own and his number of tackles in that time. Of course even then it overlooks the fact that one was playing prop, a role for high carries, and one wasn’t playing prop.

With respect to Hunslet though I'm confident their pack don't stack up to Cooper, Hill, Murdoch-Masila etc.

Yes and there is a duty of care for the young players too. Having said that, having one of those three in particular play first team periodically through this season could be beneficial. Realistically that probably happens in the event of injuries, but these boys need an opportunity to see how far off they are.

I went to the toilet on Saturday at half time, was about 20 metres and took me about 45 seconds to get there. Which means I made more metres than Singo and Donaldson will make all season in much less time. How's that for stats?????

Both of them are triers, both give 100% but if I played for Leeds I would give my all too but it doesn't mean I should be in the team.

we know Marty, and know your view, and yes it highlights a problem, but no alternative to improve it currently.

What it doesn’t highlight in terms of one of the players though, and I am sure you would accept, one of the players was brought on to shore up a defensive problem and did the job. One was brought on specifically for the issue you are highlighting, and failed in that regard.

Doesn't really matter what the stats say the Pack overall were well beaten.
Ward was the only one who looked like having the quality we need with Hurrell being over used coming out of our end.
Merrin looked like a BR trying to gain match fitness but being wasted at Prop.
The forwards we have available are definitely Quantity over Quality and will cost us this year.
Hopefully Furner starts integrating the younger lads into the Team asap.

Agree the young lads need some game time but from a developmental POV not sure how much they gain from playing in that kind of game. We were well beaten by a side who have a coach in place big players all over the pitch and have been building even before that coach arrived.

I think as the season goes in the young lads will get some games and be phased in, I just worry we don’t pin all the hopes ok them as it isn’t fair to expect an 18/19/20 year old or group of them to step into a beaten pack and suddenly turn it around.

This has always been a rebuild and it will take 2-4 years. Everybody talks about getting two big meter making props and a wrecking ball back rower. I agree we need those but where or who do people think we should have signed who we didn’t? Those players were not available this off season, if they were I think we would have signed them.

Next year we have the following players off contract (I think):
Walters
Parcell
Ormondroyd
Mullally
JJB
Ferres
Donaldson
Dwyer

Out of those I would only retain Dwyer.

We should also shed the following:

Ablett
Cuthbertson
Lilley
Peteru
Sutcliffe

That gives you cap to get 2 big props and a gain line breaking back rower, probably a decent winger as well.

How are you gonna shed contracted players?

I can certainly see us losing 5-10 players from the squad for next year. I think we almost have the young props to solve our issues within 3 years but we need something different to bolster in the meantime.
I’m happy with a back row of Merrin, Ward, Smith with one or two players in reserve (Trout is only a year or two away, maybe. If he fills out he’s going to be a cracking player).
Sutcliffe is still a bit of an enigma. Talented lad but he will not keep his place at Leeds if he doesn’t improve his defence. Honestly I was a bit worried about Lolohea’s defence but I’m putting that down to cold, getting used to positioning, playing behind a beaten pack etc.
Bottom line is that the club does not have the freedom to make all the changes it might like because of commitments on contract etc.

I'd agree with pretty much all of that. If we lose only those out of contract at the end of this season, minus Dwyer who we will most likely keep until Johnson is ready, that will free up £450-500k of cap. Plenty for three very good players with the other spots being taken by the kids who will be one year more matured with hopefully a few games under their belts.

I'd be happy to see the others you mentioned leave too, but don't see how it can be done unless they themselves want to go.

I can see why a comparison is raised with us (Wire) last season, new coach, new players, new style etc. The difference is though in the season before we had any number of decent players underperforming under TS (for whatever reason). When you look at all the class and experience you have lost over the last few seasons a period of adjustment is inevitable. Don’t think it will be too long before you see improvement though.

pay them off, warrington did with a few players in 2015, chris bridge and joel monaghan were paid off with a 2 years/ a year left on their contracts. we felt at the time that the squad needed an overhaul going into 2016.

But you know Warrington, [iWhat salary cap ?[/i

Well, wherever we can I think we need to make final decisions on the future of about half our squad by the end of this season, rip the plaster off and then get moving forward again. It's easy for us speccies to demand change when we don't see the players behind the scenes, but we can't carry on keeping a squad of nice Championship standard players and expected to get much out of a SL season. The fringe players still have an opportunity to train hard and stake a claim for a place beyond 2019.

Its not a case of throwing the younger lads in then expecting an instant turn around.
Its about getting minutes into them when the pressure is at its lowest.
Ward aside Cam Smith is better than any other BR we had playing.
Then Holroyd could come in for bench spot freeing Merrin up for a BR spot instead of Sutcliffe

Warrington will do what they did to us and by more to a few teams this season at home, they look like a quality outfit again this year.

I think it will take 6-8 games in before we can realistically see how we are faring as a team and squad. As well as the new players it will take Furner time to adapt to coaching in SL. Throwing kids in at this point is knee jerk and will do more harm than good.

For me though we need to play Merrin either at Loose or Back Row, flogging him at prop does him and the team no favours, he can play 80 minutes but not at prop. I hope Crosby is fit for next week.

Walker looks to have bulked up a fair bit and look strong in collision! And it will take Watkins a bit of time to get back into full swing

Anyway for Wigan I'd go

Walker
Briscoe
Watkins
Hurrell
Handley
Tui
Myler
Cuthbertson
Parcell
Crosby
Ward
Smith
Merrin

Dwyer
Sutcliffe/Donaldson
Singleton
Oledski


We are definitely light in the pack as everyone knows but I think we will need to play around them like saints did on Thursday

Merrin absolutely needs to be playing BR and not prop.
We would have been better playing JJB at prop with Merrin in for Sutcliffe.
Smith should be in the 17 and Holroyd against the lesser teams although at the minute that`s us, Huddersfield and Wakefield!
We used Hurrel more of a prop than any of our chosen props on Saturday which is a concern.
Hall last year now Hurrel this year

To suggest giving the kids a chance isn't knee jerk its purely thinking longer term & reward for their Form.
Smith Trout & Holroyd have ALL produced consistently & deserve a chance.
Completely agree re-Merrin mate.

some real knee jerk overreactions on here, anyone would think we lost by 50 not 26-6, they won the game with a 20 minute hot spell, we were not far off in the other 50-60 mins. I was disappointed was expecting it to be closer.

But we need to get out of the mentality that we can just offload 5-10 players, firstly its not the 1980s you cannot just say in the offs season sorry your not wanted next year clear your locker, and secondly you have to replace the players you get rid off, yes some will come through academy but only 2-3 a year at best not 5-6. then you have to either pay transfer fees or get out off contact players, and if the quality we want is not available were a bit stuck. recruitment and retention policy has bee poor for last 2-3 years and it will take 2-3 years to put right. we have essentially brought in 6 players since bask end of last season/offs season and 5-6 have gone, i would expect 4-5 more to come and go for next season then maybe 2-3 for 2021 season.

But everyone calm down its one moderate loss against the favorites in the first game of the season, see where we are after 10-12 games and i bet we are on an upward trajectory.

Agree some, disagree some.
Hurrell won't last the season if he's used the way he was the other night.
JJB was dog rough talking on sky on the thursday, he sounded like Denis Betts. I'd have been amazed had he been picked at prop or anywhere else. Not sure where Peteru was - injured? Maybe Merrin will be relieved of propping duties if/when one or both are available.
Youngsters - Furner may wish to get his first choice squad functioning properly before embarking on projects. This is, to me, understandable.

I've not seen much comment about Lolohea. I've not seen him before & wondered what Jordan Tansey was doing back at 6. I thought he was poor defensively first half & was pretty anonymous otherwise.

Well for Ablett he was looking at retiring last year and moving to aus. If he isn’t playing this year and we have early notice I think he would retire.
Cuthbo will be 34, one year left. Offer retirement with a coaching paythway as he is already doing the ladies team.
Lilley - he walks or he sits and doesn’t play, strikes me he would walk and pick up a championship team.
L Sutcliffe is the most difficult but I think somebody would take him if he was available and we weren’t seeking a fee or swap.
Peteru- if he stayed wouldn’t be end of the world but you offer him out and see if you get any interest.

Even without the above we have enough cap for what I mentioned in earlier post.